Sugar vs Salt -- transcript
This is a transcript of our episode “Sugar vs Salt”
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Announcer: From the brains behind Brains On!, it’s Smash Boom Best.
Kailynn: The show for people with big opinions.
Announcer: From the brains behind Brains On!, it’s Smash Boom Best!
Kailynn: The show for people with big opinions!
Molly: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best. The show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, we're going to tickle your taste buds with two of the most mouth-watering flavors in the world. One is the savory mineral we like to lick off pretzels, the other is the sweet ingredient we like to sprinkle on our cereal. That's right. It's sugar versus salt. Which fabulous flavor will come out on top? Here to help us decide is Kailynn. Hi, Kailynn.
Kailynn: Hi, Molly. Thank you for having me.
Molly: Thank you for being here today. Kailynn, before we get started, I just want to know what kind of snack do you prefer? Salty or sweet?
Kailynn: It's a tough one but I think I'd have to lean closer toward salty because sweet can be a little too overpowering.
Molly: When it comes to salty snacks which is your favorite?
Kailynn: Cashews, maybe, or some type of nut. Cashews are definitely my favorite though.
Molly: Cashews are very delicious. Even though you prefer salty, what is your favorite sweet snack?
Kailynn: I'm not quite sure if this is a snack but we have bacon covered in sugar so that's like the evenness of a little bit of salty but mostly sweet. That's why I like that mix.
Molly: I am a huge fan of a salty sugary mix myself so that sounds amazing. As you know, this is a debate show where the art of persuasion is highly valued. Do you ever get into debates with friends or family maybe about food?
Kailynn: Recently, me and my brother, we had this debate because he was on a cooking contest, so he had to learn all these skills like how to julienne a pepper, and he tried to tell me that he was better at cooking. I don't know how to julienne a pepper, so he has more skills than I do but he never uses them. I cook a lot more often so we're going back and forth, trying to figure out who's the better cook and then my stepmom came, she's like, "I agree with Kailynn. Sure, she doesn't know how to julienne a pepper but, overall, I think she's a better cook."
Molly: Nice. You got that judge in there. What's your favorite thing to cook?
Kailynn: I like making mac and cheese and orange chicken because I really like to eat those.
Molly: Mac and cheese and orange chicken is a little sweet. It's another sweet, salty dish.
Kailynn: Yeah, it is.
Molly: Now, it's time to introduce our debaters. Here to defend salt, the mineral we always have handy at the dinner table, it's cookbook and children's book author, New York Times columnist and restaurateur, Kenji Lopez-Alt. Hi, Kenji.
Kenji: Hey, how are you doing?
Molly: I'm doing great. Kenji, you recently wrote a picture book called Every Night is Pizza Night. My daughter loves it. Can you sum it up in one sentence?
Kenji: It's about a girl named Pipo who believes that pizza is the best food in the world and then discovers that there are other foods that could also be best.
Molly: Pizza is delicious. I do agree with her. Kenji, in one more sentence, why is salt cooler than sugar?
Kenji: Well, (laughs) because there are lots of things that taste great with just salt and no sugar but there is nothing that taste good with just sugar and no salt. Everything needs salt. It's essential for many, many reasons.
Molly: Excellent. Here to defend sugar, that sweet stuff we sprinkle, mix and melt into all of our favorite treats, it's molecular biologist turned cookbook author, food photographer, and recipe developer, Nik Sharma. Hi, Nik.
Nik: Hi, Molly.
Molly: Nik, you just published a cookbook called The Flavor Equation. Can you describe that in one sentence?
Nik: Yeah. My cookbook is a science-based cookbook that talks about what makes flavor so special to all of us, from our emotions, our memories, and the sight, sounds, textures, aromas, and taste and even salty, I put it in the book.
Molly: That was very generous of you. (chuckles) Sounds like you were giving a lot of thought to sugary and salty flavors recently. In one more sentence, why is sugar far superior to salt?
Nik: I think this should sum it up. Why would you like to be known as salty? Wouldn't you just want to be called sweet?
Molly: (chuckles) This conversation is already making me hungry. How are you feeling after these flavorful intros, Kailynn?
Kailynn: I already know this is going to be a hard decision for me because they both brought some interesting points that I agree with both of them for so I don't know. It'll be hard for me.
Molly: It's going to be a tough debate for sure but before we dive in, let's review today's rounds of debate. First, we've got the Declaration of Greatness. In this round, Nik and Kenji will defend their sides using the most persuasive facts, opinions, and logic. They'll also each have 30 seconds to rebut the other's declaration. Then we've got the Micro Round, a creative challenge both sides have prepared for in advance. For round three, it's the Sneak Attack. We'll surprise Nik and Kenji with an exciting challenge they have to respond to on the spot, and last, for round four, we've got the Final Six. Both sides will have exactly six words to win over our judge. Kailynn will be awarding points to each side along the way but she'll keep her scoring a secret until the very end. Listeners, we want you to judge too. If you'd like to keep score on the official scorecard, you can download one on our website at smashboom.org, and if you have any comments to share with us about the debate or the judge's decision, head to smashboom.org and send us a message. All right, Nik and Kenji, are you ready to make some mouth-watering arguments?
Kenji: Yes.
Nik: Let's do this.
Molly: All right. Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness. Kailynn, you have two points to award in this round. One is for the best declaration of greatness and the other is for the best rebuttal. They can go to the same person or not. It's up to you. You can use any judging criteria you want. Who is the funniest, who had the more persuasive facts, you decide. Got it?
Kailynn: Got it.
Molly: Excellent. We flipped a coin and Nik, you're up first. Let's hear your knockdown, drag-out defense of the sweet stuff we can't live without, sugar.
Nik: Sugar is magic.
Don’t believe me? Just watch the ballet, The Nutcracker. It takes place in the fantastical Land of Sweets, where chocolates and candy canes dance, and snow sparkles like sugar. The ruler of this glittering kingdom is The Sugar Plum Fairy, a beautiful fairy queen, who gets her name from sugar plum candies, which are, oddly enough, NOT PLUMS. Sugar plums are actually balls of sugar made of layer upon layer of hard candy -- like the candy coating on M&Ms. They’re pure sugar and delight.
Would you want to go hang out in the magical Land of Salt? Bleh.
NO. I’m imagining a desolate cave, where pickles swing dance and salted fish flop around on the ground, trying to breathe. NOT A GOOD SCENE. Take me back to CandyLand! Remember that board game? That is a MAGICAL game. While you play, you get to imagine licking the ice cream roof of Candy Castle. Is there a board game called SaltyLand where you take a bite out of a beef jerky fence? Bleh. NO! Because salt is not magical, and it is definitely not as amazing as sugar.
Sugar makes our eyes twinkle and our hearts skip a beat. It ignites our imagination with images of beauty and goodness. Almost every word associated with sugar is positive -- sweet, honey, candy, sugar pie, honeybunch -- (sings) Sugar pie, honey bunch / You know that I love you / I can't help myself…
I love sugar. Because it’s magic, but also because it’s SO MUCH MORE than that. Sugar isn’t just that sweet white powder on your donut, or those soft brown crystals melting into your oatmeal. It is an essential building block of life; it’s found in almost every cell in your body, and every bite of food you eat. Check it out:
Sugar is the D in DNA. DNA contains all the instructions that make you, you: what color hair you have, how tall you are.
The “D” in DNA stands for deoxyribose, which is a sugar. If sugar didn’t exist, DNA wouldn’t exist. And if DNA didn’t exist… neither would you! Or any living things, really. No dogs. No birds. No bacteria.
And not just that kind of sugar. Sugars aren’t even necessarily that sweet. Carbohydrates, the word for the sugars we eat, come in two forms: simple and complex. Simple carbohydrates give us a quick boost of energy and they’re found in fruits, candy, milk. honey and ice cream.
Complex carbohydrates give us longer lasting energy and are found in foods like oatmeal, corn, beans, sweet potatoes, whole wheat bread, rice... the list goes on! All of these foods also contain some sodium -- a.k.a. salt -- but we only need a small amount of that stuff to survive. Dietary experts recommend making carbohydrates 45 - 65% of our daily diet! If 45 - 65% of our diet was made up of salt, we’d turn into those weird swing dancing pickles I told you about! NO THANKS.
Luckily for us, it feels great to eat carbohydrates because they’re a wonderful source of energy. But it can be hard to STOP eating simple carbohydrates because sugar makes our brain release the chemical messenger dopamine, which tells our brain, “Hey! That was great! Do it again!” Which is why, when Cookie Monster eats one cookie, he usually wants another…
Cookie Monster: ME WANT COOKIE!
Because sugar is delicious, and also a magnificent creative medium! Just watch the Great British Baking Show, Zumbo’s Just Desserts or Sugar Rush! They make Gingerbread castles with windows made of sugar glass, Black Forest cakes covered with little chocolate trees and bears, roses made of fondant icing, peaches and strawberries made out of marzipan... Are there any cooking shows called SALT RUSH!? Again, no. That just makes me thirsty for some sweet lemonade.
So yeah. Sugar is magic. It’s a great source of energy, it’s a brilliant artistic medium and it’s an essential building block for life on earth…
Person: …and BEYOND!
That’s right. Sugar’s been found in outer space. The simple sugar molecule glycolaldehyde was discovered in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy in a cloud of gas and dust. So next time you look up at the night sky, imagine a dusting of magical sugar out there, making our little milky way the sweetest galaxy in the universe.
Molly: An out-of-this-world argument for sugar. Kailynn, what did you think of that declaration? What stood out to you?
Kailynn: My favorite parts were when he talked about a fantasy world, the candy world, I would love to live there with all the chocolate rivers and stuff, and when he used science in his argument, I learned a lot about DNA and dopamine and how sugar is important for us to be able to live. I didn't know that so that was cool.
Molly: That was very cool. Kenji, you've got a salty look on your face but don't worry, you've got 30 seconds to make a rebuttal, and your time starts now.
Kenji: First of all, let's just say that I would actually prefer to play a game called Salty Land. Just imagine climbing up a french fry ladder or landing on a soft, salty pretzel trampoline or imagine crunching your way through a potato chip forest or coming across that chocolate chip cookie. That sounds sweet but it actually tastes much better when you have a little sprinkle of salt on top. The reason that we don't have cooking shows and games that are all about salt is because salt is a given. It's everywhere. We use it all the time. Without salt, you can't really taste anything. You need it to cook.
Molly: And time. Very excellent.
(laughter)
Kailynn: He has more to say.
Kenji: I could have gone on.
Molly: I know. Lucky for you, it's time for your declaration of greatness.
Kenji: All right.
Molly: Let's hear more about salt.
Kenji: Imagine— it’s a Saturday morning and you wake up to the smell of vanilla and butter gently wafting through your bedroom door. You follow your nose to the kitchen where you find your papa pouring a stream of maple syrup - the good stuff - over a sky-high stack of the tallest, fluffiest, golden-browniest, most scrumdiddlyumptious pancakes. The kind of pancakes that dreams are made of.
You lift your fork, take a bite, start to chew and…
The pancakes… taste… like… fluffy… cardboard.
Newscaster: Annnnnd we’re live on the scene reporting from the back left molar here. And there’s disappointment hanging in the air. E--e-excuse me Mr... Tastebud, would you mind telling us what you just experienced?
Tastebud 1: Yeah, I rubbed myself on the pancake just like I normally do, but there was just nothing! I… I don’t understand it.
Newscaster: Let’s check in with Detective Saliva who has been all over these pancakes this morning. Can you share anything with us?
Detective: Well, it’s an active case and my fellow agents on the saliva squad are still busy breaking down the evidence, But an early chemical analysis suggests that … whoever made these pancakes, made a CRUCIAL error. They left out… THE SALT.
Kenji: Now. I know what you’re thinking. Aren’t pancakes SWEET?, and isn’t salt… salty? Why would I want salt in my pancakes?
Because, my friends, that teeeeny litle pinch of salt makes a HUGE difference.
Salt is waaayyyy more than that unassuming shaker at your dinner table lets on. In fact… salt is like a secret superhero, with LOTS of powers.
But first of all, what IS salt? Well, lil’ ole table salt actually comes from some NOT so humble beginnings. It’s parents? The explosive metal sodium and the toxic gas chlorine.
Rocker#1: Legendary!!!
Rocker#2: P-p-p-poisonous!!
Kenji: But put them both together? And you’ve got something VERY special. Table salt, or sodium chloride, is a naturally occurring mineral which is absolutely essential for all animal life. Including us HUMANS!
How? In all kinds of ways! Salt is essential in helping our bodies convert food into energy, a process called metabolizing.
All of the acids in our stomach - the icky stuff that breaks down your food – those are made with the help of chloride.
Magician: And now for my next act…. Making that slice of pizza… disappear!
Kenji: And once that food is broken down into teeny tiny little bits? Without salt, we wouldn’t be able to get that stuff in and out of our cells in the first place!
Sodium ions even form the backbone of our nervous system. Without salt, your fingers couldn’t feel. Your tongue couldn’t taste. Your ears couldn’t hear, and your nose couldn’t smell! Of course, you wouldn't even notice because without salt… your brain can’t think!
Without salt, the human body could. Not. Function. Full stop. Buh-bye humans! And the same goes for other animals, too.
In the wild, animals seek out salt. They travel for MILES looking for natural mineral deposits, called salt licks.
Biology aside, salt has got your back. We use it to melt snow and ice and keep roads safe in the winter.
For crops, salt can be used to maintain the acidity of the soil⏤so we can grow fruits and vegetables!
But let me just blow your mind with this fact:
SALT WAS THE KEY TO HUMAN CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT!
The history of salt goes something like this: animals created paths to salt licks… and humans followed them. Then, trails became roads. We built homes by those roads, then towns, then cities, and pretty soon CIVILIZATIONS and CULTURES developed. Humans went... where the salt was.
Soon, salt became SO valuable that it was even traded—everywhere! Even for gold! And in ancient Rome, salt was even used as MONEY!!
With SALT, you could preserve food. Which was a big deal back then! People didn’t have fridges and were constantly worried about their food spoiling. With salt, they didn’t have to. Salt acts as a guard for your food, keeping bad bacteria from growing on it, and keeping it good to eat for longer periods of time. Salt is why pickles and beef jerky can sit around for months or even years, sometimes getting even more delicious as they sit!
Now, when it comes to food ⏤ I’ve been a cook for over 20 years, and I‘m confident of one thing. Next to every cook’s station, ALL across the world, there’s a container of salt. It’s THAT essential to cooking!
Salt SUPERCHARGES your food. It allows us to perceive flavors better, and even smell better. And I’m not just exaggerating. There have been studies on this!
You see, we perceive taste through our tongues... AND our noses.
Salt works to release aromas, which allows us to smell and taste whatever we’re eating even BETTER.
The next time you're softening some onions, take a whiff before adding any salt. Then smell again, a few seconds after you add salt.. The difference? Huge. With salt, you’ll be able to taste the sweetness of the onions, just by smelling them!
Salt can make your food taste sweeter too. Ever wonder why people put salt — NOT sugar — on their watermelon?
The way it works is that salt naturally dials up sweet flavors⏤ while suppressing bitter ones. Salt is like headphones for your watermelon, letting you turn up the volume on your favorite sweet song while tuning out any distractions. Salt turns UP the entire flavor of a food.
And when combined with all of the OTHER cool things salt does ⏤ and how necessary it is for life itself — well, I’d wager to say that salt can do it ALL, in a pinch.
Molly: A mouth-watering declaration for salt. Kailynn, what do you think of that? What stood out to you?
Kailynn: Once again, I already know it's going to be a tough one because he named some of my favorite foods. French fries, potato chips, and salt on cookies makes them 10 times better but I also learned some things like that salt is essential for life. Your brain can't work without salt and that it was the key to civilization.
Molly: This is a tough one but Nik, I know you are itching to deliver a sweet but cutting rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to dissect Kenji's case and your time starts now.
Nik: What am I going to say? Without sugar, you can't have DNA. If you don't have DNA, you can't have the proteins that make up your taste buds to help you taste salt and absorb salt from your food, and in order for those taste receptor buds to work, they actually have sugar attached to them to appreciate the taste of salt so sugar is essential. RNA, the first nucleic acid which a lot of scientists believe to be the first-
Molly: And time. I really want to know what you're going to say.
(laughter)
Molly: Kailynn, you have two points to award this round. One for the best rebuttal and one for the best declaration. Think about which side won you over. Who made the most persuasive arguments, who wowed you, who made you laugh. One point could go to each person or one person could get both the points. Totally up to you. Let us know when you've made your call.
Kailynn: Okay. I'm done.
Molly: Okay. Listeners at home, if you need more time, you can always press pause while you think. Nik, Kenji, how are you feeling about your chances?
Kenji: I'm feeling pretty good. I think deep down, Nik probably agrees with me. He's making some good strong arguments here.
Nik: I'm feeling pretty good too. We'll see how this plays out.
Molly: We're going to take a breather so go grab a sweet treat or a salty snack if you need one.
Kailynn: But don't go too far because we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
Todd: Todd Douglas here, with 903-time debate champion, Taylor Lincoln!
Taylor: Toddy, what sound do you think a unicorn makes?
Todd: You mean, what sound would a unicorn make if a unicorn were real?
Taylor: Hey now! We don’t need to rehash the great “what do aliens smell like?” debate of 2017!
Todd: Alright, alright.
Taylor: I just have unicorns on the brain, because of this debate I caught between two friends having a picnic in the park. Roll tape!
Peter: Ok, so I’ve been thinking about your question and I think I finally have an answer.
Tabitha: Oh yeah?
Peter: Yes, my number one goal in life is (dramatic pause) to meet a unicorn!
Tabitha: Say what now?
Peter: Yes, I absolutely will meet a unicorn one day!
Tabitha: Peter, unicorns aren’t real.
Peter: How dare you, Tabitha? No one has ever been able to prove that unicorns aren’t real!
Tabitha: And no one has ever been able to prove that they are real!
Todd: Holy one-horned cow!
Taylor: Horse.
Todd: That was a double fallacy fail! I haven’t seen one of those in ages.
Taylor: That’s right, both Tabitha and Peter used a logical fallacy called Appeal to Ignorance.
Todd: Logical fallacies are debate no-nos because they make your arguments weak. Appeals to Ignorance are when you use a lack of proof as a point in your favor.
Taylor: And as you just heard, appeals to Ignorance can be used by opposing sides in the exact same way. If no one has any evidence to support their claims... no one is leaving this debate a winner!
Todd: To win a debate, you have to bring actual facts and sound logic!
Taylor: But no one has ever said aliens don’t smell like strawberries...
Todd: We are not doing this again, Taylor….
Taylor: Well, in that case, we’ll catch you next time, debate-heads! On...
Todd/Taylor: State of Debate!
Molly: You're listening to Smash Boom Best, the show about showdowns. We love to debate ideas you send our way like this one from Odin.
Auden: My debate idea is heart versus brain.
Molly: We'll check in again with Auden at the end of the show to see who he thinks should win. Now it's time to get back to this fearsome foody face-off. Debaters are you fueled up and ready to rock?
Kenji: I am ready to rock.
Nik: Oh, yeah. I'm ready.
Molly: Excellent, and it's time for the--
Speaker 1: Micro-round.
Molly: Your micro-round challenge is Seussian Stylings. Both debaters will present poems in the style of Dr. Seuss, starring their side. Nik, you went first last time so Kenji, you're up. Let's hear those salty poetic chops.
Kenji: Okay, this is called Salty Ode.
It’s clear that salt is simply better
Without salt, life would wither and die.
It regulates crucial body functions, plus!
Nobody wants to eat a plain French fry.
For what is a chip without salt,
But a boring old potato?
With salt you can make flavor POP
Just ask your average tomato
Salt grants us with these super powers
Aromas become awakened
Food is sweeter! Lasts longer! It even tastes better!
And just how do you think we make bacon?
We humans owe so much to salt
In the creation of cities and culture
Salt preserves all our precious food
Saving it from the vultures!
In olden days, salt was very valuable,
And not just for our tongues and tummies.
We traded it for gold! We fought wars over it.
We even used salt as money.
A worker who you cannot fault?
Let’s just say they’re worth their salt.
A person who’s been good since birth?
Those folks are the salt of the earth.
And salts not just for cooking. It’s used for many things,
From cleaning cuts to melting ice and snow!
Farmers even use it in soil
To help their fruits and veggies grow!
So let’s gather round and raise a toast
To that edible rock which seasons our roasts
From the Great Wall of China to the Ivory Coast,
It’s the mineral we dig, the crystal we exalt,
And it all goes by the name of SALT.
Molly: Very lovely. All right Nik, now it's your turn to share a sugar lover's take on Dr. Seuss.
Nik: Each morning I walk down the road to my school
Past the old hardware store and the closed public pool
It’s really quite grim, except when I stop
At cheerful Ms. Swizzlestick’s sweet candy shop
You can smell her at work, from a mile away
You can hear her clang-banging, and singing all day
She whips up confections, makes marshmallow twirls
Spins long yarns of taffy, strings sweet sugar pearls
Walk in, and you’ll see her walls crowded with jars
Filled with yummy-gummies and chocolate bars
But my favorite treat, the best one of all
Are her specialty, Zoop-a-dee-doop-a-dee balls!
What are those, you ask? Well, I wondered the same
Until I decided to ask her one day
“I’ll show you!” she said. “Come on, follow me!”
“I’ll make you a zoop-a-dee-doop, or three!”
Her kitchen was steamy, her kitchen was sweet!
Her kitchen was noisy, and definitely NOT neat.
She grabbed a big spoon, and a cumbersome pot
Threw in some sugar -- she threw in a LOT!
“Sugar!” She cried, “Is the key to all sweets!”
“It’s the star, don’t you know, in all Swizzlestick treats.”
Then she measured and mixed at a furious pace
All with a wink and a smile on her Swizzlestick face
I watched her quite close, and took lots of notes
But I couldn’t keep up! I’ll read what I wrote.
“Three cups of sugar, and two cocoa beans
Choca-oh-boodle? Now, what does that mean?
UNsalted butter, vanilla -- four drops!
Add in some egg whites and cream, plip plop!
Now caramel twirls, and a dish-dash of fudge,
Some nougat. How much? You be the judge.
Now stir, spin and mix it, roll it, make balls!
Don’t skimp on the size! They shouldn’t be small.”
And that’s all I wrote, but it didn’t end there,
She threw me a ball, and it soared through the air!
“Open wide!” she cried. My jaw dropped to the floor
Zoop-a-dee-doop! Oh the flavors, galore!
A perfect confection! I’ll gobble the rest!
Zoop-a-dee-doop-a-dee balls are the best!
Molly: Such flavor-filled poetry. Kailynn, it's time for you to award a point to whichever side you like best. Have you made your decision?
Kailynn: Yes, I have.
Molly: Excellent. Well, now it's time for the round that's more surprising than the most delicious of dishes. It's the Sneak Attack.
Molly: Your sneak attack challenge is Speed Facts. We want you to deliver as many fascinating sugar and salt facts as you can in a single breath. But quality trumps quantity. So aim for the most exciting facts and clearest delivery. Does that make sense Kenji and Nik?
Kenji: Yes.
Nic: Yes.
Molly: Excellent. We'll give you a few minutes to brainstorm while we listen to some enchanting hold music.
Hold Music: Gimme some honey, gimme some sweets
Cookies and cakes, candy and treats
Sugar makes me happy, sugar makes me glow
Tastes like the ocean makes flavors pop
Every food is better with some salt on top
Table, Himalayan, Kosher, and Sea Salt.
Molly: Nik, Kenji, are you ready?
Kenji: I am as ready as I'll ever be.
Nik: Absolutely ready to get this done.
Molly: Excellent. Well Nik, you're up first this time. Let's hear some sweet, sweet sugar facts. Take a deep breath in and go whenever you're ready.
Nik: All right. Sugar is fermented to make acids. It provides energy, it provides structure to plants and animals, gives us dietary fibers. Sugar is in meteorites, and it is in early life in the form of RNA.
Molly: That was impressive. I think I was holding my breath the entire time. (laughs)
Nik: I didn't think I could do it.
(laughter)
Molly: You did, very nice. (laughs) All right Kenji, your turn.
Kenji: All right.
Molly: On your mark-
Kenji: Okay, ready.
Molly: -get set,
Kenji: (inhales)
Molly: -go.
Kenji: Salt was used as money. Salt was used to make mummies and destroy zombies. Salt is better at masking the flavor of bitter medicine than sugar, so instead of a spoon full of sugar, try using a pinch of salt when you're taking your medicine. Salt comes in a rainbow of colors naturally, unlike sugar which only comes naturally in brown. Throwing salt over your shoulder is good luck. Words like salami salad and even the suffix, which all come from word-- salt.
(laughter)
Oh, I'm sorry. I ran out of breath on the last one.
(laughter)
Molly: That was great.
Kailynn: You guys are pretty good at that.
Molly: Yes. Nicely done both of you.
Kenji: (laughter)
Molly: All right, Kailynn, this is another really tough decision.
Kailynn: (sighs) Geez.
Molly: Which fact attack impress you more? You could rate them on the delivery, the quality of facts, the longest breath, whatever makes sense to you. Have you marked down your point?
Kailynn: Yes. I'm ready.
Molly: Okay. Well, it's all been building to this moment. The last round of this sweet and savory debate battle, it's the Final Six. Debaters, you both have got six more words to sum up the glory of your side. This is your last chance to convince Kailynn that your team is tops. Kenji, let's hear your final six.
Kenji: French fries, potato chips, pepperoni pizza.
(laughter)
Molly: All right Nik, let's hear your final six?
Nik: Sweet, ubiquitous, gastronomy, artistic, rainbows, yams.
Kailynn: Ooh.
(laughter)
He said yams. Oh, geez.
Molly: (groans) That is tough. I think I'm going to end every sentence now with just “yams!” All right, this was a dynamic debate. Both sides really brought their best. Kailynn, now it's up to you. Award the final point. Have you made your decision?
Kailynn: Yes.
Molly: Okay, now tally up all five points you've awarded throughout the debate. Are you ready to crown a winner?
Kailynn: Yes, sadly.
Molly: Drumroll, please.
The winner is--
Kailynn: Kenji.
Molly: Team salt for the win.
Kailynn: It was off by one point.
Molly: It was a very close match-up.
Kailynn: Yes.
(laughter)
Kenji: I would have voted for Nik. I especially love Nik's poem.
Kailynn: Yes. What sold me though was you said french fries and potato chips.
(laughter)
Nik: I mean, they're both carbohydrates.
Molly: True.
(laughter)
Molly: Sugar and salt working together all the time.
Kenji: Yes they do. Yes.
Molly: We really can't have one without the other.
Kailynn: Yes.
Molly: Sugar and salt, teammates for life. Kailynn crowned salt the Smash Boom Best today, but who do you think won?
Kailynn: Let us know if you agree with my verdict. Head to smashboom.org and cast your vote.
Molly: That's it for today's munchy, crunchy, match-up. Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! and American Public Media.
Nik: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont, Jennifer Lai, Marc Sanchez, and Sanden Totten.
Kenji: We had engineering help from Cameron Wiley.
Nik: We had production help from Elyssa Dudley, Kristina Lopez, and Menaka Wilhelm.
Molly: Anna Weggel is the voice of our hold music and our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. We want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Coffman. Nik, is there anyone you want to give a shoutout to today?
Nik: My mom for letting me eat a lot of ice creams.
(laughter)
Molly: How about you Kenji?
Kenji: Oh, to my daughter Alecia who loves listening to the show.
Molly: (chuckles) Kailynn, do you want to give any special thanks today?
Kailynn: To Nik and Kenji for making it extremely difficult for me to make a choice.
(laughter)
Molly: Awesome, and before we sign off, let's hear some more from Auden. Remember, he suggested the heart versus brain match-up. Here's who he thinks would win.
Auden: I think brain will win because without the brain the heart wouldn't beat.
Molly: Thanks Auden, and if you dreamed up the best debate idea ever, we want to hear about it. You can share your ideas with us or just say hi at smashboom.org. We love hearing from you. We'll be back soon with another debate battle.
Kailynn: See you.
Nik: Later.
Kenji: Bye-bye.
Molly: Ta-ta.
Molly: What's your favorite flavor ice cream? I want to know.
Nik: Lemon. Lemon or passionfruit-
Molly: Oh, yes. Sounds good.
Nik: -with a pinch of salt.
(laughter)
Kenji: You're just squeezing that in there.
(laughter)