Today’s debate is a captivating clash of two condiments. It’s Ketchup vs. Ranch! We’ve got comedian and writer Devohn Bland here to defend team Ranch and voice actor Merk Nguyen ready to fight for Ketchup! Who will be crowned the Smash Boom Best? Vote below for the team YOU think won!
Also… do you have your Smarty Pass yet? Get yours today for just $5/month (or $45/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um and Forever Ago. Visit www.smartypass.org to get your Smarty Pass today. As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly!
Educators - Lesson plan for Smash Boom Best - Ketchup vs. Ranch [Right click to download]
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ANNOUNCER: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best--
CAROLINE: --the show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom. And this is Smash Boom Best-- the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate tastes real good in a little cup or a packet. Grab your fries, carrots, wings, and tots because it's ketchup versus ranch. We've got comedian and writer Devohn Bland here to defend Team Ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: No stressing-- time for ranch dressing.
MOLLY BLOOM: And voice actor Merk Nguyen is here to fight for ketchup.
MERK NGUYEN: I will squeeze the day-- "toma-totally" stoked to defend this ruby-red delight.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Caroline Mendota Heights, Minnesota. Caroline loves to make costumes, craft and, go scuba diving. Hi, Caroline.
CAROLINE: Hi, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you like to make costumes. Can you tell us about any recent costumes you've made?
CAROLINE: So I made a Draculaura cosplay for last Halloween. And then I also went to Twin Cities Con in it. It was made out of a Spandex-y thing. I got to dye the wig and paint my nails and all that kind of stuff and do my makeup.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very cool. Tell me about the character you dressed up as.
CAROLINE: Draculaura she is a Monster High doll. She is the daughter of Dracula. She has split-dyed hair. She has pink hair on one side and black hair on the other side. And I don't know, she's cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice, very, very fun. OK. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?
CAROLINE: Make bad puns, but make them funny bad, not like bad, bad.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
CAROLINE: Also musical theater references-- I'm a musical theater girl--
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, all right.
CAROLINE: Love, love.
MOLLY BLOOM: So just bad enough puns, musical theater if you can.
CAROLINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Will Caroline side with Devohn or Merk? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds-- the declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge, Caroline, will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Devohn, Merk, and Caroline, are you ready?
DEVOHN BLAND: Yeah.
MERK NGUYEN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CAROLINE: Aye, aye.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
ANNOUNCER: --declaration of greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And, Devohn, you're up first. Tell us why you're in raptures over ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: Hi, folks. I'm here to talk about the wonders of ranch dressing. But first, I'd like to introduce you to a friend of mine who's a bit of an expert on the subject. Hit it, Randy.
RANDY: (RAPPING) Well, my name is Randy, the Cool Ranch Kid. Let's jam about something awesome somebody did. With ideas growing like a tree with a branch, it's time to talk about the incredible ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: Thanks, Randy. Ranch is a delicious dressing and dip that has stood the test of time. With its creamy but slightly tangy flavor, it is America's favorite salad dressing. Beyond its great taste, ranch dressing is all about friendship, togetherness, and making sure folks enjoy what they eat.
RANDY: (RAPPING) No stressing, it's the dressing that everyone loves on a salad with your chicken tenders. Can't get enough. Gather round, lend us your ears, and tell all your friends of the glory-filled story about delectable ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: When I was a kid, I wasn't super into eating my veggies. I knew they were good for me, but something was missing. Then one day, I went to a friend's house, and he had some broccoli. And he was dipping it in this sauce, this ranch dressing--
[ANGELS SINGING]
I took a taste and was amazed. [CRUNCH] From that moment on, eating my veggies was easy. Ranch is a complementary flavor. It's perfect on a lot of things and is great for sharing and has been since it was invented. In fact, it got famous due to an act of friendship by its inventor. Story has it that when ranch dressing creator Steven Henson made food for his coworkers and friends, he would offer them a new type of dressing.
[COW MOOS]
SPEAKER 1: Thanks for having me for dinner, Steven.
STEVEN HENSON: Of course. I love cooking for all my coworkers and friends.
SPEAKER 1: Everything looks great. I think I'll start with the salad. [CRUNCH] Whoa, what is this? It's amazing.
STEVEN HENSON: Oh, just some lettuce and some greens.
SPEAKER 1: No, not that-- the dressing. It's amazing.
STEVEN HENSON: Oh, that. It's something I've been working on to make the meals more interesting. I'm glad you like it.
SPEAKER 1: Like it? I love it. I need a jar-- wait, no 10 jars of this to take home.
[RECORD SCRATCH]
RANDY: (RAPPING) His name was Steven Henson. He was working in Alaska. He made some friends, and they had to ask him. Steven, your dinners are amazing. Oh, what a blessing. What's on the salad? Ranch dressing.
[CHEERING]
The dressing was a hit with his family and friends. He made it for everybody again and again.
DEVOHN BLAND: Steven and his wife eventually bought a ranch that they named Hidden Valley, where they sold the dressing. Hidden Valley Ranch is still sold in stores today. In fact, three out of four households have it in their pantry. Today, you can find ranch-flavored chips. You can use it as a dip for pizzas. It even goes well with buffalo wings, adding a cooling effect that pairs well with many spicy foods. Ranch is America's favorite flavor, with Americans consuming over 100 million bottles of this stuff each year, spending way more money on ranch than ketchup.
[RECORD SCRATCH]
RANDY: (RAPPING) 100 million bottles of ranch on the wall. People love it so much, it can never fall. No playing possum, ranch is awesome, and that's a fact. Talked about it so much, I think it's time for a snack.
DEVOHN BLAND: I think you've got the right idea, Randy. Let's have a snack together. After all, ranch is all about friendship.
[RECORD SCRATCH]
RANDY: (RAPPING) Snack time-- that's what I'm talking about. Randy, the Cool Ranch Kid, over and out.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, Randy the ranch rapper? How did you get him for your declaration of greatness?
DEVOHN BLAND: I had to pull some strings, but it worked out in the end.
MOLLY BLOOM: Incredible. Caroline, what stood out to you about Devohn's declaration of greatness?
CAROLINE: Randy reminded me of Thomas Jefferson from Hamilton. And as I said, I'm a musical theater girl. And I'm like, Hamilton? And also the veggie thing, where you don't want to eat your veggies and then you dip them. And then you're like, oh, it's not that bad.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very good. All right, Merk, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why ranch is rancid. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
MERK NGUYEN: OK, Ranchdy was spitting bars. But I will say, anything you can dip ranch in, you can dip ketchup in too. Have you not had ketchup with your carrots or your pizza with your ketchup? I know it's unusual, but don't knock it until you try it. Also, people are spending more money on ranch because people give ketchup away for free in packets. They don't do that for ranch because they're stingy with that stuff. Ranch will also spoil overnight, even if it is dairy free, and ketchup doesn't spoil as fast. And sauce cups that ranch comes in-- I mean, other than the bottle-- they take up more room in the trash. Is that good--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MERK NGUYEN: --for the environment?
DEVOHN BLAND: Whoa. But ranch is delicious, and that's why people want it more.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. All right. Merk, tell us about all those people who like ketchup. It's your turn. Tell us why ketchup is the boss of sauce.
MERK NGUYEN: Hey, you're just in time. I'm about to try out this new TV streaming service, Ketchup Plus, all ketchup content. See--
SPEAKER 2: (SINGING) This red sauce is the very best. It's traveled far and wide. Can be eaten with, like, anything-- it's a complimentary side.
MERK NGUYEN: Ooh, what else we got?
SPEAKER 3: Yeah, so I just polished my brass with it. You just squeeze a little bit on there. [SQUELCHING] Little dab'll do you. And then you get your cloth ketchupy, and you rub it on in.
CAROLINE: Amazing.
SPEAKER 3: Ooh. What's this?
[CHEERING]
SPEAKER 4: How about we catch this cooking up a notch, huh? On the meatloaf-- bam. Baked beans-- bam Sloppy Joes-- bam.
[CHEERING]
(SINGING) Got to ketchup all.
MERK NGUYEN: That's quality entertainment. [LAUGHS] Oh, ketchup, the ever-evolving, multi-purpose, comforting condiment that's the Smash Boom Best. Ketchup has roots all over the world. Seriously, hop on board my ship, and I'll catch you up on the history of ketchup.
[SPLASH]
We're sailing over to Southeast Asia. I want to show you a special sauce that helped pave the way for ketchup. It's known as [TAGALOG] in the Philippines, [THAI] in Thailand, and [VIETNAMESE] in Vietnam. In English, we call it fish sauce. Now, you might be thinking a fishy catch is a little sketch. I disagree. It's rich in smell and history, dating back to 300 BC.
Like other salty foods, it could last for months. People didn't start calling it ketchup until nearly 2,000 years later, when people in Southern China started eating this salty sauce from Southeast Asia. They called it [HOKKIEN CHINESE] or [HOKKIEN CHINESE] in Hokkien Chinese. The pronunciation stuck all the way through the 1600s, when Dutch and English traders brought this rocking sauce home with them. And speaking of rocking, mind if we dock this boat now? I'm getting seasick.
[FOG HORN BLOWS]
In the 18th century, Europeans concocted ketchup with fermented walnuts, mushrooms and oysters. But about 100 years later, in 1812, tomatoes entered the recipe. And the rest is "deli-story." Today, we use ketchup on so many American favorites, like meatloaf, burgers, fries, and hot dogs. But this ruby-red beauty is a fave elsewhere too. In Japan, it's on omurice. In Germany, it's in currywurst. And it doesn't have to be red. There's green tomato ketchup in Quebec.
And a catchy thing about ketchup is that it can be used for other things besides eating, Thanks to its tomato salt and vinegar, you can use it to Polish brass, detarnish license plates, and clean old tools.
[CREAKING]
SPEAKER 5: Oh no, my wrench is rusted.
[SQUELCHING]
[SQUEAKING]
That's better.
MERK NGUYEN: Not only is ketchup versatile, it's also comforting. Close your eyes for a minute and think of one of your favorite meals. For me, it's my mom's home-cooked ketchup noodles. It makes me think of being a kid again, sitting at the table with my older siblings, the smell of tangy, slightly sweet ketchup in the air. It was my mom serving us love in the form of a meal.
Chances are, ketchup is a big part of your life too. Like a dependable friend, it's always there-- in a red squeezy bottle at a diner, in the fridge at your house, in an emergency stash of packets from a burger place you keep nearby for your fries. Ketchup is always around-- reliable, delicious, internationally beloved, and unbeatably cozy. Ketchup, the Smash Boom Best-chup.
MOLLY BLOOM: A very heartfelt declaration full of lots of "deli-story" there. Caroline, what stood out to you about Merk's argument?
CAROLINE: First of all, we had quite a few bad funny puns in there, so that was good. Also, the Pokemon play-- on the day we're recording this, it's actually National Pokemon Day. So I was like, [GASP] oh my god, it's National Pokemon Day-- the Pokemon.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Caroline is also wearing a Pokemon shirt.
CAROLINE: I am wearing a Pokemon shirt.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. All right. Devohn, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why we should dethrone this condiment king. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
DEVOHN BLAND: Whoa, you're telling me that ketchup has so much acidity in it that it could take rust off? You don't want that inside your body. Also, the sugar content in ketchup is so bad that that's the reason why it doesn't go bad so easily. Earlier, someone said that people give out ketchup for free. That's because nobody wants it.
[LAUGHTER]
MERK NGUYEN: Uh-uh.
DEVOHN BLAND: And also, what else? It's not good for your teeth. It is great that it has such a--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DEVOHN BLAND: --good history but ugh.
MERK NGUYEN: You know what? But ketchup is like the Pokemon of sauces. It gets stronger and stronger with each iteration-- fish sauce to walnuts to tomatoes. And it's like the Alexander Ketchuptin of sauces, you know what I mean? So I'm sorry Aaron Burr, sir, but it's just how it is.
DEVOHN BLAND: Ugh.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Caroline, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you awarded your points?
CAROLINE: Mm, yes. Yes I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Merk and Devohn, how are you two feeling so far?
MERK NGUYEN: I'm feeling saucy. I'm feeling spicy as a sriracha ketchup.
DEVOHN BLAND: I'm feeling pretty good. I don't know the connection between Pokemon and ranch, but I'm sure there is one. I'm sure there is one.
MOLLY BLOOM: It is time for a quick break. Dip those wings and sauce those tots.
CAROLINE: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[ENERGETIC MUSIC]
ANNOUNCER: You're watching state of debate, home to raging rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, debaterinos, Taylor Lincoln here.
TODD DOUGLAS: And I'm Todd Douglas, and I'm getting very dizzy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Maybe it's because you're riding that merry go round.
TODD DOUGLAS: Oh, 100%. I thought it would be a good way to talk about the circular reasoning fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: A fallacy is an argument that's easy to tear down because it's not logical. The circular reasoning fallacy is when someone ends an argument with the same point as the one they started with.
TODD DOUGLAS: Yep, the argument just goes round and round, like saying merry-go-rounds are fun because people have fun on merry-go-rounds. Whee!
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Or cats are mean because they aren't nice.
TODD DOUGLAS: Or I shouldn't have spun so fast because spinning this fast isn't something you should do.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Or chocolate is tasty because it's super yummy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Or my stomach feels queasy because I'm nauseous.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, oh. Or how about you shouldn't wear white after Labor Day because you're not supposed to?
TODD DOUGLAS: Or barfing on state of debate is bad because if I did, that would be terrible.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Actually, that would be terrible. For the love of logic, Todd, stop spinning.
TODD DOUGLAS: [SIGHS] That's all the logical fallacy I can take today.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: We'll see you next time on--
TODD DOUGLAS: --State of Debate.
[ENERGETIC MUSIC]
Any chance you got a barf bag?
ANNOUNCER: Brains On! Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[ROCKET SOARING]
SPEAKER 6: It's alien exercise hour. Hi-ya, hoo, ha. While I stretch my snootles and bounce on my trampoliney, I'll listen to a new podcast. let's [BUZZ] I'm going to try Brains On, the best science podcast ever.
[ELECTRONICS WHIRRING]
SPEAKER 7: It's starting. Yay.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
STAR EDEN: Hello, and welcome to Pop Planet, the only show that gets you up close and personal with space. I'm your host, Star Eden--
[BUZZER]
SPEAKER 6: Zorp. Come back here, podcast.
[BEEPING]
Must listen to Brains On now.
[ROCKET SOARING]
ANNOUNCER: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER 8: Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
CAROLINE: And I'm your judge, Caroline.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this debate idea from Libby.
LIBBY: My name is Libby. I'm My debate idea is wizards versus magicians.
CAROLINE: What a spellbinding debate idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Libby thinks should win.
CAROLINE: And now it's back to our debate, ketchup versus ranch.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the micro round. For the micro round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Devohn and Merk, the prompt was to be or not to be. Devohn and Merk were asked to write a Shakespearean monologue about their side. Devohn went first last time. So, Merk, you're up. Give us your ode to ketchup.
[HORNS PLAYING]
MERK NGUYEN: Attention, attention to all citizens of Bland Land. I apologize for how society has been run by former Ruler Ranch's ravenous hands. But fear not, my people, for I have a royal decree, a delicious gift I shall give with great pace to thee. Hurrah.
[CROWD GASPING]
In your possession, 'tis an international sensation, an essential condiment for every sauce station. This glistening red treasure packs a powerful punch. Eat with eggs in the morn or spuds at lunch. 'Tis sweet and tangy and what some call umami, can be put in soups or on meats like salami. Don't just take my word for how great it tastes. There are notable folk among you who add it to their waists.
The pigskin throwing Patrick-- yes, Mahomes is his name-- eats grilled chicken, fries, and ketchup before his games. Jane Austen, the intelligent lady who has written many a book, enjoys hers with walnuts. 'Tis an old recipe, I presume, of its liquidy looks. The lute-playing Ed Sheeran has loved this since he was a lad, has a permanent inking of it-- an arm tattoo, I believe, is what one calls this fad.
Ah, the time is nigh for you to slumber and receive a good morrow's rest. With love from your saucy sovereign, I give you my best.
[HORNS PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my goodness. What an ode, indeed. All right, Devohn. Now it is your turn. Show us how Hamlet would order his ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: A salad dressed, a tang for thine own tongue. Verily, I seek the ranch, my search begun. What doth this flavor best not dress? Not much. Not much, this flavor is best not dressed yet such. I seek the tang that sprang for all. Here now, I seek the ranch that makes the worst best somehow. Portions and morsels from all realms made bold, a flavor to savor for all times told.
Verily, merrily, hysterically, I seek the ranch, for ketchup is not good. I seek the ranch, as most have and should. What say you, who doth destruct thine own taste? What say you, who uses ketchup? [HOCKS SPIT] Such waste. Verily, I seek the ranch, not it me. Ranch is and shall be best for all to see.
[APPLAUSE]
[CHEERING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, very well said there, Devohn. Caroline, what did you like about Devohn and Merk's odes?
CAROLINE: My theater-kid self is eating so well today.
[LAUGHTER]
The medieval music in both of them was peak. I thought it was really funny in Merk's one where she would randomly remember that it's Shakespeare. And so she would shoehorn in, like, thine. And I'm like, that was funny. And then Devohn's had more actual Shakespearean in it, which was funny as well.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very excellent work, both of you. But, Caroline, only one of our poets here can receive a point. The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
CAROLINE: Yep.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super-stealthy--
SPEAKER 9: Ha, ha, hoo, ha.
MOLLY BLOOM: --sneak attack. This is our improvised round, where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called style sense. Merk and Devohn, if your side had a fashion line, what would it be called? What would it look like? Tell us about some of the pieces in the collection. You'll have 60 seconds max to tell us about it. Debaters, does this make sense? Are you ready for this sneak attack?
DEVOHN BLAND: I think I'm ready.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh. Oh, snap, sorry. You know when, in the bottle, the sauce is stuck? That's my brain right now. It's OK. It'll all come out. It will.
DEVOHN BLAND: That happens with ketchup.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh.
CAROLINE: It happens with ranch too. I've--
MERK NGUYEN: Thank you, Caroline.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right. We're going to start with Devohn. Tell us what outfits are on the cover of Ranch Magazine.
DEVOHN BLAND: Yeah, so Ranch Magazine-- a great publication. It's been here for about 50 years. We're talking cowboys outfits but chic. We're talking leather cowboy hats. We're talking cowboys fits that you could wear to grandma's house but also to the clurb.
[LAUGHTER]
We're talking little lassos that you could grab your ranch with, but they're all bedazzled with diamonds and things like that. We're talking Barbiecore. We're talking lots of bright colors but also little reds and whites to symbol buffalo-wing style.
MERK NGUYEN: Red like ketchup? Mm.
DEVOHN BLAND: That's the thing. No, like buffalo ranch dressing.
MERK NGUYEN: Buffalo's kind of orange though, don't you think?
DEVOHN BLAND: Yeah, but that's because of the sugar content.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time. [LAUGHS]
MERK NGUYEN: Always the sugar with you, huh?
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Merk, it is your turn. What looks is ketchup putting on the runway? You have at most 60 seconds. Go ahead.
MERK NGUYEN: Two words-- Ketchup Chromatica, OK? I mentioned ketchup is like a ruby red, glistening, sweet-- yes, Devohn-- wonder. You've got your ketchup tops. You can go with a crop top. You can go with a crewneck. You can go with a long sleeve. You can go with these pants. Ketchup comes in these chromatic sweatpants that easily wash off if you get the ketchup-- or ranch, if you're into that-- on you. There's also ketchup Crocs. Oh my gosh, that line just dropped. Let me tell you, it is so comforting, just like ketchup. It's a classic.
I can't wait for you to try out these designs. Ketchup by Ketchup, Ketchup Chromatica-- everything you could possibly want for any occasion, any time of day. There's even those ketchup night guards, the eye masks that look like ketchup packets. It's so cool. I can't wait for you to invest in this piece of fashion--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MERK NGUYEN: --for your own coolness.
MOLLY BLOOM: Two amazing fashion lines described there-- Caroline, it is time to award a point to one of these amazing descriptions.
CAROLINE: I have to pick between Chappell Roan, "Pink Pony Club" and what I wear on a daily basis.
[LAUGHTER]
MERK NGUYEN: Tough.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's hard.
MERK NGUYEN: Tough choices.
MOLLY BLOOM: Tough choice.
MERK NGUYEN: I don't envy your position.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Caroline. Think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. Don't tell us who it's going to.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you awarded your points?
CAROLINE: Yep.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. It's time for our final round--
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
--the final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Merk, let's hear your six words for ketchup.
MERK NGUYEN: Ketchup, the ultimate Pokemon of sauces.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
MERK NGUYEN: (SINGING) Gotta ketchup all.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Devohn, it is your turn. Give us six words for ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: Ranch helps food taste better. Yay.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: The enthusiasm. All right, Caroline, it is time to award a final point for this final six.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
CAROLINE: Yes, I have.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my goodness. Tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
CAROLINE: I think I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drum roll, please. And the winner is--
[DRUM ROLL]
CAROLINE: Ranch.
[HORNS PLAYING]
DEVOHN BLAND: Yes. [LAUGHS]
MERK NGUYEN: [GROANING]
DEVOHN BLAND: That is awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.
MERK NGUYEN: Ugh.
DEVOHN BLAND: This is an honor.
MERK NGUYEN: I'm bleeding blood-red ketchup over here.
DEVOHN BLAND: Oh, no.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh, it's OK.
DEVOHN BLAND: I hope that the dyes in that don't stain the pants that you-- oh, no.
MERK NGUYEN: No, they don't. Because this line of pants just-- it comes right off.
CAROLINE: That's what she just said. She literally said they're made so that you can clean them.
MOLLY BLOOM: Caroline, was there a favorite moment of the debate or a moment that really sealed the deal for ranch?
CAROLINE: I think ranch just won because it was like funnier. I don't know. It just--
MOLLY BLOOM: Got you some jokes.
CAROLINE: --was funnier. But I will say, ketchup won the rebuttal and the final six. Yeah, Pikachu does love ketchup. So I do--
DEVOHN BLAND: It's canon?
CAROLINE: It is. There's an entire episode about him just being in love with a bottle of ketchup. It's really weird.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: So it was 3, 2. It was very close--
CAROLINE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: --as close as a debate can be.
DEVOHN BLAND: I think Merk did a great job. I did not know about the deep history of ketchup. I didn't know how personal it would get. And I applaud you for doing what you did and giving us the knowledge that you gave us.
CAROLINE: Aw.
MERK NGUYEN: Devohn, I just want to say, you are a legend. When I heard you on the Escalators and Elevators episode, I went, he is so flipping cool. And you are so creative. That sassy Shakespearean soliloquy-- man, bars. And also, I will say, one of my favorite sauces is a dill ranch, and it's "dill-icious." I can't complain about it. So thank you for--
DEVOHN BLAND: Did I hear you say "dill-icious?"
MERK NGUYEN: Of course you did.
DEVOHN BLAND: Aw.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's it for today's debate battle. Caroline crowned ranch the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
CAROLINE: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom--
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Justin Dooler and Derek Ramirez with sound design by--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: With fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team--
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
RACHEL BREES.: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Cavoti and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, and MC Scat Skat, a.k.a. Derek Stevens. Devohn, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
DEVOHN BLAND: I would like to give a big-shout out to the Schilling family and my girlfriend, whom I love, and also Steven Henson, the guy who created ranch dressing because he liked having friends over for dinner.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. How about you, Merk, any special shout-outs?
MERK NGUYEN: My top ketchup connoisseur is my sister and my husband-- they're ketchup freaks, I tell you-- 19th-century food scientists from Philly, like Henry J. Heinz, my mom, of course, for the ketchup noodles, Devohn. Seriously, I'm so stoked-- I don't even care that I lost. I'm here debating with you-- Caroline, of course, and tomatoes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Aw. And how about you, Caroline, any special thanks or shout-outs?
CAROLINE: I would like to thank both of my cats, Esko and Mellow. I would like to thank all of my friends. And I would like to thank my dog, Wellington, and my little brother, Gabriel, and my mom and my dad.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Before we go, let's check in and see who Libby thinks should win the wizards versus magicians debate.
LIBBY: I think that wizards would win because they do real magic and magicians only do tricks.
CAROLINE: Smash Boom Best is a nonprofit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock-down, drag-out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pants for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all four shows in the Brains On Universe. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week-- eclipses versus aurora borealis. Ta-ta.
DEVOHN BLAND: Goodbye, and good luck.
CAROLINE: Au revoir.
MERK NGUYEN: Ketchup with you later.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the smash boom best
Ooh, put you through the test
Ooh, you're the smash boom best
Ooh, better than the rest
It's a smash boom best
It's a smash boom best
CAROLINE: I do appreciate the Hamilton puns, but they might be running out of time.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh!
DEVOHN BLAND: Ooh.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh!
CAROLINE: --the show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom. And this is Smash Boom Best-- the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate tastes real good in a little cup or a packet. Grab your fries, carrots, wings, and tots because it's ketchup versus ranch. We've got comedian and writer Devohn Bland here to defend Team Ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: No stressing-- time for ranch dressing.
MOLLY BLOOM: And voice actor Merk Nguyen is here to fight for ketchup.
MERK NGUYEN: I will squeeze the day-- "toma-totally" stoked to defend this ruby-red delight.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Caroline Mendota Heights, Minnesota. Caroline loves to make costumes, craft and, go scuba diving. Hi, Caroline.
CAROLINE: Hi, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you like to make costumes. Can you tell us about any recent costumes you've made?
CAROLINE: So I made a Draculaura cosplay for last Halloween. And then I also went to Twin Cities Con in it. It was made out of a Spandex-y thing. I got to dye the wig and paint my nails and all that kind of stuff and do my makeup.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very cool. Tell me about the character you dressed up as.
CAROLINE: Draculaura she is a Monster High doll. She is the daughter of Dracula. She has split-dyed hair. She has pink hair on one side and black hair on the other side. And I don't know, she's cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice, very, very fun. OK. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?
CAROLINE: Make bad puns, but make them funny bad, not like bad, bad.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
CAROLINE: Also musical theater references-- I'm a musical theater girl--
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, all right.
CAROLINE: Love, love.
MOLLY BLOOM: So just bad enough puns, musical theater if you can.
CAROLINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Will Caroline side with Devohn or Merk? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds-- the declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge, Caroline, will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Devohn, Merk, and Caroline, are you ready?
DEVOHN BLAND: Yeah.
MERK NGUYEN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CAROLINE: Aye, aye.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
ANNOUNCER: --declaration of greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And, Devohn, you're up first. Tell us why you're in raptures over ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: Hi, folks. I'm here to talk about the wonders of ranch dressing. But first, I'd like to introduce you to a friend of mine who's a bit of an expert on the subject. Hit it, Randy.
RANDY: (RAPPING) Well, my name is Randy, the Cool Ranch Kid. Let's jam about something awesome somebody did. With ideas growing like a tree with a branch, it's time to talk about the incredible ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: Thanks, Randy. Ranch is a delicious dressing and dip that has stood the test of time. With its creamy but slightly tangy flavor, it is America's favorite salad dressing. Beyond its great taste, ranch dressing is all about friendship, togetherness, and making sure folks enjoy what they eat.
RANDY: (RAPPING) No stressing, it's the dressing that everyone loves on a salad with your chicken tenders. Can't get enough. Gather round, lend us your ears, and tell all your friends of the glory-filled story about delectable ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: When I was a kid, I wasn't super into eating my veggies. I knew they were good for me, but something was missing. Then one day, I went to a friend's house, and he had some broccoli. And he was dipping it in this sauce, this ranch dressing--
[ANGELS SINGING]
I took a taste and was amazed. [CRUNCH] From that moment on, eating my veggies was easy. Ranch is a complementary flavor. It's perfect on a lot of things and is great for sharing and has been since it was invented. In fact, it got famous due to an act of friendship by its inventor. Story has it that when ranch dressing creator Steven Henson made food for his coworkers and friends, he would offer them a new type of dressing.
[COW MOOS]
SPEAKER 1: Thanks for having me for dinner, Steven.
STEVEN HENSON: Of course. I love cooking for all my coworkers and friends.
SPEAKER 1: Everything looks great. I think I'll start with the salad. [CRUNCH] Whoa, what is this? It's amazing.
STEVEN HENSON: Oh, just some lettuce and some greens.
SPEAKER 1: No, not that-- the dressing. It's amazing.
STEVEN HENSON: Oh, that. It's something I've been working on to make the meals more interesting. I'm glad you like it.
SPEAKER 1: Like it? I love it. I need a jar-- wait, no 10 jars of this to take home.
[RECORD SCRATCH]
RANDY: (RAPPING) His name was Steven Henson. He was working in Alaska. He made some friends, and they had to ask him. Steven, your dinners are amazing. Oh, what a blessing. What's on the salad? Ranch dressing.
[CHEERING]
The dressing was a hit with his family and friends. He made it for everybody again and again.
DEVOHN BLAND: Steven and his wife eventually bought a ranch that they named Hidden Valley, where they sold the dressing. Hidden Valley Ranch is still sold in stores today. In fact, three out of four households have it in their pantry. Today, you can find ranch-flavored chips. You can use it as a dip for pizzas. It even goes well with buffalo wings, adding a cooling effect that pairs well with many spicy foods. Ranch is America's favorite flavor, with Americans consuming over 100 million bottles of this stuff each year, spending way more money on ranch than ketchup.
[RECORD SCRATCH]
RANDY: (RAPPING) 100 million bottles of ranch on the wall. People love it so much, it can never fall. No playing possum, ranch is awesome, and that's a fact. Talked about it so much, I think it's time for a snack.
DEVOHN BLAND: I think you've got the right idea, Randy. Let's have a snack together. After all, ranch is all about friendship.
[RECORD SCRATCH]
RANDY: (RAPPING) Snack time-- that's what I'm talking about. Randy, the Cool Ranch Kid, over and out.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, Randy the ranch rapper? How did you get him for your declaration of greatness?
DEVOHN BLAND: I had to pull some strings, but it worked out in the end.
MOLLY BLOOM: Incredible. Caroline, what stood out to you about Devohn's declaration of greatness?
CAROLINE: Randy reminded me of Thomas Jefferson from Hamilton. And as I said, I'm a musical theater girl. And I'm like, Hamilton? And also the veggie thing, where you don't want to eat your veggies and then you dip them. And then you're like, oh, it's not that bad.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very good. All right, Merk, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why ranch is rancid. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
MERK NGUYEN: OK, Ranchdy was spitting bars. But I will say, anything you can dip ranch in, you can dip ketchup in too. Have you not had ketchup with your carrots or your pizza with your ketchup? I know it's unusual, but don't knock it until you try it. Also, people are spending more money on ranch because people give ketchup away for free in packets. They don't do that for ranch because they're stingy with that stuff. Ranch will also spoil overnight, even if it is dairy free, and ketchup doesn't spoil as fast. And sauce cups that ranch comes in-- I mean, other than the bottle-- they take up more room in the trash. Is that good--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MERK NGUYEN: --for the environment?
DEVOHN BLAND: Whoa. But ranch is delicious, and that's why people want it more.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. All right. Merk, tell us about all those people who like ketchup. It's your turn. Tell us why ketchup is the boss of sauce.
MERK NGUYEN: Hey, you're just in time. I'm about to try out this new TV streaming service, Ketchup Plus, all ketchup content. See--
SPEAKER 2: (SINGING) This red sauce is the very best. It's traveled far and wide. Can be eaten with, like, anything-- it's a complimentary side.
MERK NGUYEN: Ooh, what else we got?
SPEAKER 3: Yeah, so I just polished my brass with it. You just squeeze a little bit on there. [SQUELCHING] Little dab'll do you. And then you get your cloth ketchupy, and you rub it on in.
CAROLINE: Amazing.
SPEAKER 3: Ooh. What's this?
[CHEERING]
SPEAKER 4: How about we catch this cooking up a notch, huh? On the meatloaf-- bam. Baked beans-- bam Sloppy Joes-- bam.
[CHEERING]
(SINGING) Got to ketchup all.
MERK NGUYEN: That's quality entertainment. [LAUGHS] Oh, ketchup, the ever-evolving, multi-purpose, comforting condiment that's the Smash Boom Best. Ketchup has roots all over the world. Seriously, hop on board my ship, and I'll catch you up on the history of ketchup.
[SPLASH]
We're sailing over to Southeast Asia. I want to show you a special sauce that helped pave the way for ketchup. It's known as [TAGALOG] in the Philippines, [THAI] in Thailand, and [VIETNAMESE] in Vietnam. In English, we call it fish sauce. Now, you might be thinking a fishy catch is a little sketch. I disagree. It's rich in smell and history, dating back to 300 BC.
Like other salty foods, it could last for months. People didn't start calling it ketchup until nearly 2,000 years later, when people in Southern China started eating this salty sauce from Southeast Asia. They called it [HOKKIEN CHINESE] or [HOKKIEN CHINESE] in Hokkien Chinese. The pronunciation stuck all the way through the 1600s, when Dutch and English traders brought this rocking sauce home with them. And speaking of rocking, mind if we dock this boat now? I'm getting seasick.
[FOG HORN BLOWS]
In the 18th century, Europeans concocted ketchup with fermented walnuts, mushrooms and oysters. But about 100 years later, in 1812, tomatoes entered the recipe. And the rest is "deli-story." Today, we use ketchup on so many American favorites, like meatloaf, burgers, fries, and hot dogs. But this ruby-red beauty is a fave elsewhere too. In Japan, it's on omurice. In Germany, it's in currywurst. And it doesn't have to be red. There's green tomato ketchup in Quebec.
And a catchy thing about ketchup is that it can be used for other things besides eating, Thanks to its tomato salt and vinegar, you can use it to Polish brass, detarnish license plates, and clean old tools.
[CREAKING]
SPEAKER 5: Oh no, my wrench is rusted.
[SQUELCHING]
[SQUEAKING]
That's better.
MERK NGUYEN: Not only is ketchup versatile, it's also comforting. Close your eyes for a minute and think of one of your favorite meals. For me, it's my mom's home-cooked ketchup noodles. It makes me think of being a kid again, sitting at the table with my older siblings, the smell of tangy, slightly sweet ketchup in the air. It was my mom serving us love in the form of a meal.
Chances are, ketchup is a big part of your life too. Like a dependable friend, it's always there-- in a red squeezy bottle at a diner, in the fridge at your house, in an emergency stash of packets from a burger place you keep nearby for your fries. Ketchup is always around-- reliable, delicious, internationally beloved, and unbeatably cozy. Ketchup, the Smash Boom Best-chup.
MOLLY BLOOM: A very heartfelt declaration full of lots of "deli-story" there. Caroline, what stood out to you about Merk's argument?
CAROLINE: First of all, we had quite a few bad funny puns in there, so that was good. Also, the Pokemon play-- on the day we're recording this, it's actually National Pokemon Day. So I was like, [GASP] oh my god, it's National Pokemon Day-- the Pokemon.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Caroline is also wearing a Pokemon shirt.
CAROLINE: I am wearing a Pokemon shirt.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. All right. Devohn, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why we should dethrone this condiment king. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
DEVOHN BLAND: Whoa, you're telling me that ketchup has so much acidity in it that it could take rust off? You don't want that inside your body. Also, the sugar content in ketchup is so bad that that's the reason why it doesn't go bad so easily. Earlier, someone said that people give out ketchup for free. That's because nobody wants it.
[LAUGHTER]
MERK NGUYEN: Uh-uh.
DEVOHN BLAND: And also, what else? It's not good for your teeth. It is great that it has such a--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DEVOHN BLAND: --good history but ugh.
MERK NGUYEN: You know what? But ketchup is like the Pokemon of sauces. It gets stronger and stronger with each iteration-- fish sauce to walnuts to tomatoes. And it's like the Alexander Ketchuptin of sauces, you know what I mean? So I'm sorry Aaron Burr, sir, but it's just how it is.
DEVOHN BLAND: Ugh.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Caroline, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you awarded your points?
CAROLINE: Mm, yes. Yes I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Merk and Devohn, how are you two feeling so far?
MERK NGUYEN: I'm feeling saucy. I'm feeling spicy as a sriracha ketchup.
DEVOHN BLAND: I'm feeling pretty good. I don't know the connection between Pokemon and ranch, but I'm sure there is one. I'm sure there is one.
MOLLY BLOOM: It is time for a quick break. Dip those wings and sauce those tots.
CAROLINE: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[ENERGETIC MUSIC]
ANNOUNCER: You're watching state of debate, home to raging rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, debaterinos, Taylor Lincoln here.
TODD DOUGLAS: And I'm Todd Douglas, and I'm getting very dizzy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Maybe it's because you're riding that merry go round.
TODD DOUGLAS: Oh, 100%. I thought it would be a good way to talk about the circular reasoning fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: A fallacy is an argument that's easy to tear down because it's not logical. The circular reasoning fallacy is when someone ends an argument with the same point as the one they started with.
TODD DOUGLAS: Yep, the argument just goes round and round, like saying merry-go-rounds are fun because people have fun on merry-go-rounds. Whee!
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Or cats are mean because they aren't nice.
TODD DOUGLAS: Or I shouldn't have spun so fast because spinning this fast isn't something you should do.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Or chocolate is tasty because it's super yummy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Or my stomach feels queasy because I'm nauseous.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, oh. Or how about you shouldn't wear white after Labor Day because you're not supposed to?
TODD DOUGLAS: Or barfing on state of debate is bad because if I did, that would be terrible.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Actually, that would be terrible. For the love of logic, Todd, stop spinning.
TODD DOUGLAS: [SIGHS] That's all the logical fallacy I can take today.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: We'll see you next time on--
TODD DOUGLAS: --State of Debate.
[ENERGETIC MUSIC]
Any chance you got a barf bag?
ANNOUNCER: Brains On! Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[ROCKET SOARING]
SPEAKER 6: It's alien exercise hour. Hi-ya, hoo, ha. While I stretch my snootles and bounce on my trampoliney, I'll listen to a new podcast. let's [BUZZ] I'm going to try Brains On, the best science podcast ever.
[ELECTRONICS WHIRRING]
SPEAKER 7: It's starting. Yay.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
STAR EDEN: Hello, and welcome to Pop Planet, the only show that gets you up close and personal with space. I'm your host, Star Eden--
[BUZZER]
SPEAKER 6: Zorp. Come back here, podcast.
[BEEPING]
Must listen to Brains On now.
[ROCKET SOARING]
ANNOUNCER: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER 8: Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
CAROLINE: And I'm your judge, Caroline.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this debate idea from Libby.
LIBBY: My name is Libby. I'm My debate idea is wizards versus magicians.
CAROLINE: What a spellbinding debate idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Libby thinks should win.
CAROLINE: And now it's back to our debate, ketchup versus ranch.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the micro round. For the micro round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Devohn and Merk, the prompt was to be or not to be. Devohn and Merk were asked to write a Shakespearean monologue about their side. Devohn went first last time. So, Merk, you're up. Give us your ode to ketchup.
[HORNS PLAYING]
MERK NGUYEN: Attention, attention to all citizens of Bland Land. I apologize for how society has been run by former Ruler Ranch's ravenous hands. But fear not, my people, for I have a royal decree, a delicious gift I shall give with great pace to thee. Hurrah.
[CROWD GASPING]
In your possession, 'tis an international sensation, an essential condiment for every sauce station. This glistening red treasure packs a powerful punch. Eat with eggs in the morn or spuds at lunch. 'Tis sweet and tangy and what some call umami, can be put in soups or on meats like salami. Don't just take my word for how great it tastes. There are notable folk among you who add it to their waists.
The pigskin throwing Patrick-- yes, Mahomes is his name-- eats grilled chicken, fries, and ketchup before his games. Jane Austen, the intelligent lady who has written many a book, enjoys hers with walnuts. 'Tis an old recipe, I presume, of its liquidy looks. The lute-playing Ed Sheeran has loved this since he was a lad, has a permanent inking of it-- an arm tattoo, I believe, is what one calls this fad.
Ah, the time is nigh for you to slumber and receive a good morrow's rest. With love from your saucy sovereign, I give you my best.
[HORNS PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my goodness. What an ode, indeed. All right, Devohn. Now it is your turn. Show us how Hamlet would order his ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: A salad dressed, a tang for thine own tongue. Verily, I seek the ranch, my search begun. What doth this flavor best not dress? Not much. Not much, this flavor is best not dressed yet such. I seek the tang that sprang for all. Here now, I seek the ranch that makes the worst best somehow. Portions and morsels from all realms made bold, a flavor to savor for all times told.
Verily, merrily, hysterically, I seek the ranch, for ketchup is not good. I seek the ranch, as most have and should. What say you, who doth destruct thine own taste? What say you, who uses ketchup? [HOCKS SPIT] Such waste. Verily, I seek the ranch, not it me. Ranch is and shall be best for all to see.
[APPLAUSE]
[CHEERING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, very well said there, Devohn. Caroline, what did you like about Devohn and Merk's odes?
CAROLINE: My theater-kid self is eating so well today.
[LAUGHTER]
The medieval music in both of them was peak. I thought it was really funny in Merk's one where she would randomly remember that it's Shakespeare. And so she would shoehorn in, like, thine. And I'm like, that was funny. And then Devohn's had more actual Shakespearean in it, which was funny as well.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very excellent work, both of you. But, Caroline, only one of our poets here can receive a point. The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
CAROLINE: Yep.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super-stealthy--
SPEAKER 9: Ha, ha, hoo, ha.
MOLLY BLOOM: --sneak attack. This is our improvised round, where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called style sense. Merk and Devohn, if your side had a fashion line, what would it be called? What would it look like? Tell us about some of the pieces in the collection. You'll have 60 seconds max to tell us about it. Debaters, does this make sense? Are you ready for this sneak attack?
DEVOHN BLAND: I think I'm ready.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh. Oh, snap, sorry. You know when, in the bottle, the sauce is stuck? That's my brain right now. It's OK. It'll all come out. It will.
DEVOHN BLAND: That happens with ketchup.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh.
CAROLINE: It happens with ranch too. I've--
MERK NGUYEN: Thank you, Caroline.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right. We're going to start with Devohn. Tell us what outfits are on the cover of Ranch Magazine.
DEVOHN BLAND: Yeah, so Ranch Magazine-- a great publication. It's been here for about 50 years. We're talking cowboys outfits but chic. We're talking leather cowboy hats. We're talking cowboys fits that you could wear to grandma's house but also to the clurb.
[LAUGHTER]
We're talking little lassos that you could grab your ranch with, but they're all bedazzled with diamonds and things like that. We're talking Barbiecore. We're talking lots of bright colors but also little reds and whites to symbol buffalo-wing style.
MERK NGUYEN: Red like ketchup? Mm.
DEVOHN BLAND: That's the thing. No, like buffalo ranch dressing.
MERK NGUYEN: Buffalo's kind of orange though, don't you think?
DEVOHN BLAND: Yeah, but that's because of the sugar content.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time. [LAUGHS]
MERK NGUYEN: Always the sugar with you, huh?
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Merk, it is your turn. What looks is ketchup putting on the runway? You have at most 60 seconds. Go ahead.
MERK NGUYEN: Two words-- Ketchup Chromatica, OK? I mentioned ketchup is like a ruby red, glistening, sweet-- yes, Devohn-- wonder. You've got your ketchup tops. You can go with a crop top. You can go with a crewneck. You can go with a long sleeve. You can go with these pants. Ketchup comes in these chromatic sweatpants that easily wash off if you get the ketchup-- or ranch, if you're into that-- on you. There's also ketchup Crocs. Oh my gosh, that line just dropped. Let me tell you, it is so comforting, just like ketchup. It's a classic.
I can't wait for you to try out these designs. Ketchup by Ketchup, Ketchup Chromatica-- everything you could possibly want for any occasion, any time of day. There's even those ketchup night guards, the eye masks that look like ketchup packets. It's so cool. I can't wait for you to invest in this piece of fashion--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MERK NGUYEN: --for your own coolness.
MOLLY BLOOM: Two amazing fashion lines described there-- Caroline, it is time to award a point to one of these amazing descriptions.
CAROLINE: I have to pick between Chappell Roan, "Pink Pony Club" and what I wear on a daily basis.
[LAUGHTER]
MERK NGUYEN: Tough.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's hard.
MERK NGUYEN: Tough choices.
MOLLY BLOOM: Tough choice.
MERK NGUYEN: I don't envy your position.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Caroline. Think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. Don't tell us who it's going to.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you awarded your points?
CAROLINE: Yep.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. It's time for our final round--
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
--the final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Merk, let's hear your six words for ketchup.
MERK NGUYEN: Ketchup, the ultimate Pokemon of sauces.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
MERK NGUYEN: (SINGING) Gotta ketchup all.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Devohn, it is your turn. Give us six words for ranch.
DEVOHN BLAND: Ranch helps food taste better. Yay.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: The enthusiasm. All right, Caroline, it is time to award a final point for this final six.
[SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
CAROLINE: Yes, I have.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my goodness. Tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
CAROLINE: I think I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drum roll, please. And the winner is--
[DRUM ROLL]
CAROLINE: Ranch.
[HORNS PLAYING]
DEVOHN BLAND: Yes. [LAUGHS]
MERK NGUYEN: [GROANING]
DEVOHN BLAND: That is awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.
MERK NGUYEN: Ugh.
DEVOHN BLAND: This is an honor.
MERK NGUYEN: I'm bleeding blood-red ketchup over here.
DEVOHN BLAND: Oh, no.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh, it's OK.
DEVOHN BLAND: I hope that the dyes in that don't stain the pants that you-- oh, no.
MERK NGUYEN: No, they don't. Because this line of pants just-- it comes right off.
CAROLINE: That's what she just said. She literally said they're made so that you can clean them.
MOLLY BLOOM: Caroline, was there a favorite moment of the debate or a moment that really sealed the deal for ranch?
CAROLINE: I think ranch just won because it was like funnier. I don't know. It just--
MOLLY BLOOM: Got you some jokes.
CAROLINE: --was funnier. But I will say, ketchup won the rebuttal and the final six. Yeah, Pikachu does love ketchup. So I do--
DEVOHN BLAND: It's canon?
CAROLINE: It is. There's an entire episode about him just being in love with a bottle of ketchup. It's really weird.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: So it was 3, 2. It was very close--
CAROLINE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: --as close as a debate can be.
DEVOHN BLAND: I think Merk did a great job. I did not know about the deep history of ketchup. I didn't know how personal it would get. And I applaud you for doing what you did and giving us the knowledge that you gave us.
CAROLINE: Aw.
MERK NGUYEN: Devohn, I just want to say, you are a legend. When I heard you on the Escalators and Elevators episode, I went, he is so flipping cool. And you are so creative. That sassy Shakespearean soliloquy-- man, bars. And also, I will say, one of my favorite sauces is a dill ranch, and it's "dill-icious." I can't complain about it. So thank you for--
DEVOHN BLAND: Did I hear you say "dill-icious?"
MERK NGUYEN: Of course you did.
DEVOHN BLAND: Aw.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's it for today's debate battle. Caroline crowned ranch the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
CAROLINE: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom--
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Justin Dooler and Derek Ramirez with sound design by--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: With fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team--
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
RACHEL BREES.: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Cavoti and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, and MC Scat Skat, a.k.a. Derek Stevens. Devohn, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
DEVOHN BLAND: I would like to give a big-shout out to the Schilling family and my girlfriend, whom I love, and also Steven Henson, the guy who created ranch dressing because he liked having friends over for dinner.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. How about you, Merk, any special shout-outs?
MERK NGUYEN: My top ketchup connoisseur is my sister and my husband-- they're ketchup freaks, I tell you-- 19th-century food scientists from Philly, like Henry J. Heinz, my mom, of course, for the ketchup noodles, Devohn. Seriously, I'm so stoked-- I don't even care that I lost. I'm here debating with you-- Caroline, of course, and tomatoes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Aw. And how about you, Caroline, any special thanks or shout-outs?
CAROLINE: I would like to thank both of my cats, Esko and Mellow. I would like to thank all of my friends. And I would like to thank my dog, Wellington, and my little brother, Gabriel, and my mom and my dad.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Before we go, let's check in and see who Libby thinks should win the wizards versus magicians debate.
LIBBY: I think that wizards would win because they do real magic and magicians only do tricks.
CAROLINE: Smash Boom Best is a nonprofit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock-down, drag-out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pants for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all four shows in the Brains On Universe. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week-- eclipses versus aurora borealis. Ta-ta.
DEVOHN BLAND: Goodbye, and good luck.
CAROLINE: Au revoir.
MERK NGUYEN: Ketchup with you later.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the smash boom best
Ooh, put you through the test
Ooh, you're the smash boom best
Ooh, better than the rest
It's a smash boom best
It's a smash boom best
CAROLINE: I do appreciate the Hamilton puns, but they might be running out of time.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh!
DEVOHN BLAND: Ooh.
MERK NGUYEN: Oh!
Transcription services provided by 3Play Media.
