Today’s debate is a real showstopper! It’s Clowns vs. Magicians! Actor and professional clown Gregory Parks puts the whoop in whoopie cushion for Team Clowns, while Brains On co-creator and editor Sanden Totten dazzles for Team Magicians! Who will be crowned the Smash Boom Best? Vote below for the team YOU think won!
Also… do you have your Smarty Pass yet? Get yours today for just $5/month (or $45/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um and Forever Ago. Visit www.smartypass.org to get your Smarty Pass today. As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly!
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MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: From the brains behind Brains On!, it's Smash Boom Best. The show for people with big opinions.
ANNA WEGGEL: Hi, I'm Anna Weggel filling in for Molly Bloom. And this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a real showstopper. Grab your rubber noses and magic wands because it's clowns versus magicians. We've got actor and professional clown Gregory Parks ready to put the whoop and whoopie cushion for team clowns.
GREGORY PARKS: Hello, everybody. Let's get ready to have some serious fun.
ANNA WEGGEL: And wait, what's that behind your ear? Why, it's Brains On! co-creator and editor Sanden Totten here to defend magicians.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Anna, I've got my top hat, and I'm ready to pull a rabbit and a win.
ANNA WEGGEL: And here to judge it all is Elliott. Elliott is a part of a robotics club, has a YouTube channel with his dad, and knows how to catch a running chicken. Welcome back, Elliot.
ELLIOT: Hi.
ANNA WEGGEL: So Elliot, can you tell us about a robot that you've helped design?
ELLIOT: I made this robot called Triangle Bot, and it was a triangle. It was not really good at anything, but it was a triangle instead of a square, so it was interesting.
ANNA WEGGEL: I've never seen a triangle robot. That sounds really cool. Did it do anything?
ELLIOT: Yeah, it could drive around. It was like a cheese wedge kind of. It was kind of silly.
ANNA WEGGEL: That's amazing. Did you name it?
ELLIOT: Cheese wedge.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, we have to hear more about this chicken thing. So how did you learn to catch a chicken?
ELLIOT: OK, so they're really fast. They're not slow at all. You'd think they'd be slow, but their-- chickens are actually pretty fast. So how do you get them is we're a lot smarter than them. So you open up a door for them and then when you chase them into the door, they'll go to the door, and then you can just slam the door shut. But they're like running for cover. And they'll be like, I want to go under cover.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, so it's more about outsmarting them and tricking them than chasing them?
ELLIOT: Yeah.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK.
ELLIOT: Because you can't really catch one by just running.
ANNA WEGGEL: It sounds like you've had a lot of practice with this. Is this something you have to do on a daily basis?
ELLIOT: I have to do it every once in a while if one of them escapes or whatever.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh my gosh. I wonder if this skill will translate into other areas of your life.
ELLIOT: I'm not sure if it will, but I mean, chickens. Yay.
ANNA WEGGEL: Time will tell. So this is not your first time judging. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?
ELLIOT: Don't lean too hard in trying to go after your opponent. That's kind of just time that doesn't really mean anything. And you could use it for facts or jokes or whatever.
ANNA WEGGEL: Mm, so don't play dirty. Go high is what you're saying?
ELLIOT: Yeah.
ANNA WEGGEL: Excellent advice, not only in this debate, but in life. Will Elliot side with Gregory or Sanden? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds, the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro-Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge Elliott will award points to the team that impresses him the most, but he'll keep his decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. And at the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Gregory, Sanden and Elliot, are you ready?
GREGORY PARKS: Ready.
ELLIOT: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm-hmm. Let's bring it on.
GREGORY PARKS: Let's go.
ANNA WEGGEL: Then it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
ANNA WEGGEL: In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Gregory, you're up first. Tell us why clowns are your preferred performers.
GREGORY PARKS: You might think clowns are a joke, a bunch of big dudes riding teeny tiny bicycles. Well, think again, my friends. Us clowns are a serious bunch. Seriously talented. Seriously funny. Seriously powerful. [FART SOUND] Oh, sat on my whoopie cushion. As I was saying, I've been a clown for 25 years, but I remember the first time I performed with the Ringling Brothers Circus like it was yesterday.
I was backstage sweating in my greasepaint, nervously fiddling with my big red nose. This was my first big gig with graduates of Ringling Brothers Clown College, which, by the way, was harder to get into than the fanciest, shmanciest colleges. And--
SPEAKER: Hey Greg, it's go time.
GREGORY PARKS: As we walked down the hallway toward the big, bright arena, my heart started pounding. The stadium was packed. 18,000 people were in the stands going wild. As I gazed up at balcony after balcony of beaming faces, my heart skipped a beat. It confirmed what I already knew. Clowns are beloved. No matter what makes you giggle, I cross my heart and guarantee there's a clown out there that'll make you go, heeheehee.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
There are whitefaced clowns with red noses, auguste clowns who are mostly just funny actors, mimes who don't talk, bullfighting rodeo clowns and even jesters who performed for kings and queens. Us clowns can juggle knives, play musical instruments, tell killer jokes, walk on stilts, wrangle bucking broncos, do backflips, make insanely cute balloon animals.
Oh, and did I mention do magic tricks? Yeah, clowns can do what magicians do, only funnier. We can't help it. We've been making people laugh for thousands of years since ancient Egypt. That's right. You can even find clowns in ancient hieroglyphics.
ANNA WEGGEL: Where do pharaohs go when they want a break from being in charge? Denial.
GREGORY PARKS: After that, clowns popped up around the world in China, India, Japan, Europe, Africa, Russia. And these jesters, or fools, as they were called, often worked for noblemen and royalty. For example, Mathurine the Fool was the court jester for three French kings in the Renaissance. One time, a lady in waiting said--
FRENCH LADY: Ugh, I don't like having a fool on my right side.
GREGORY PARKS: And Mathurine the Fool, with a twinkle in her eye, jumped to the lady's other side and said--
MATHURINE THE FOOL: I don't mind it at all.
GREGORY PARKS: And you know what happens when you add seriously talented and seriously funny together. You get seriously powerful, my bro. Shakespeare put a whole bunch of jesters in his plays. And they were almost always wiser than everyone else. As Touchstone the Fool in the play As You Like It says--
TOUCHSTONE THE FOOL: The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
GREGORY PARKS: To translate, a foolish person thinks they're way smarter than they actually are, but a wise person realizes how much there is left to learn. Being wise isn't the only way clowns are powerful. We're also emotionally powerful. We can make people laugh so hard they pee their pants and make them so scared they start crying their eyes out. Isn't that right, little Lou?
LOU: I'm not scared, Greg. OK, maybe a little.
GREGORY PARKS: Sometimes people think clowns are scary because behind our face paint, our expressions can be hard to read, and sometimes we do surprising things like pull a coin out of little Lou's ear. Wow, maybe you should clean in there. And for my next trick, I'm going to make you a balloon animal. What do you want, Lou, Lou?
LOU: An axolotl.
GREGORY PARKS: An axo-what-otl?
LOU: An axolotl.
GREGORY PARKS: Oh, an axe that waddles. Let me make one. Chop, chop. Clowning takes serious skills and serious emotional power, but I do it, we all do it because we have a special calling, to make people laugh.
[FART SOUND]
LOU: Uh, Greg.
GREGORY PARKS: Not my whoopie cushion again.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, big doof's riding teeny tiny bicycles. So much more. Elliot, what stood out to you about Gregory's Declaration of Greatness?
ELLIOT: I really liked all the reoccurring things like the whoopie cushion at the beginning and the end and the little girl. That 0 really funny, honestly, having a little girl go, heeheeheehee.
ANNA WEGGEL: Amazing. OK, Elliot like the callbacks. Everyone take note. OK, Sanden, It's time for your rebuttal. Tell us why clowns are real jokers. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
SANDEN TOTTEN: OK, Anna. Clowns are beloved? Well, how many horror movies have you seen starring clowns? Tons. Magicians? Not so much because clowns, they're not just hiding their emotion without a makeup or a little surprising. They kind of fit into the uncanny of humans. They sort of seem normal, but there's something off about them. I don't know. They give people the heebie jeebies. They need to cut it out.
Also, clowns, yes, they're good at making you laugh, but it's one note. It's the same over and over again. Magicians, we make you gasp. We make you wonder. We make you laugh--
ANNA WEGGEL: That's time.
SANDEN TOTTEN: We're like the full fruit section. Clowns are just like--
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, OK, OK. Gregory, do you have anything to say in return?
GREGORY PARKS: Yes, the reason why we look that uncanny valley is not because we are not human, but we are more human than human. Clowns encompass the entire range of human emotion. We are up. We are down. We are introspective. We are extroverted. We do everything, my friends. We are not afraid of emotions. We are not afraid to share emotions. And those emotions are how we connect with our audience.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, it's your turn, Sanden. Show us the razzle dazzle for Team Magicians.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Debates and gentle judges, prepare to be stunned as I, The Great Sandini, make my assistant, Sassy the Cow, disappear. Ready, Sassy?
SASSY THE CLOWN: [MOOING]
SANDEN TOTTEN: Ala-cow-zam! What's that? Oh, you don't see Sassy? That's the whole point. You see, I made her-- oh, you couldn't see her before she disappeared? Right. Podcast. No worries. I have lots of other amazing illusions for your ears. Listen as I play you a beat. Do you hear how it's getting faster and faster? But hold on. Why isn't it just a blur of sounds at this point? You can still hear each individual drumbeat. The trick is, it's not actually getting faster. It's an illusion.
[TRUMPETS BLOWING]
Or marvel at this tone that sounds like it's getting higher and higher. But wait a minute, if it actually kept getting higher in pitch, eventually, you just wouldn't be able to hear it. Yet you hear it just fine. Ha, another illusion.
[TRUMPETS BLOWING]
You see, that's the thing about magicians. We can make wonder wherever, whenever, with whatever.
[CROWD OOHING]
Sure, some magicians work with huge stage props, making tigers appear out of thin air.
[TIGER GROWLING]
[CROWD OOHING]
Or sawing their assistants in half.
[SAWING SOUND]
Ta-da!
[CROWD OOHING]
Don't worry, Sassy's fine. But we can also do astounding feats with small things like a deck of cards. Picture any card. Is your card the three of hearts? Nailed it. We can even blow your mind with simple everyday objects like rubber bands, pencils or coins.
SPEAKER: What's that behind your ear, Olivia? Wow, look, a quarter. Here you go.
OLIVIA: Just transfer it to my phone, mom. Who still uses cash?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Plus, magicians make any event better, whether it's a birthday party, a dinner party, even a wedding. You may now put the ring on your beloved's finger.
SPEAKER: But look, the ring is already on their finger.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Magica. A clown at a wedding will be asked to leave the wedding.
SPEAKER: But wait, don't you want to see what my flower does first?
SPEAKER: Ugh, it shoots seltz-- I bet it shoots seltzer.
SPEAKER: It shoots seltzer.
[HORN TOOTING]
SPEAKER: Please go.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Magicians can work in lots of styles too. Some tell stories or do stunts. Some are mysterious and spooky. Others are goofy and playful. But unlike clowning around, watching magicians is good for your brain. That's because it teaches you to be skeptical, to question. You see, when you see magic, you know it's a trick, but it still fools you.
Later, you wonder how the performer did that. What tools and techniques did they use? In a world full of fake news stories, AI generated images, and scammers, understanding tricks is more important than ever. Magicians help you practice those skills in a fun, safe way. Clowns help you practice much less useful skills like pretending to laugh.
[HORN TOOTING]
SPEAKER: [LAUGHS] Yeah, that was great. The whole pie in the face thing. Yeah, well, I got to go to my hair-- I mean, my doctor's appointment. Bye.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Plus, understanding how a trick is done doesn't ruin the magic. I've been taking magic classes for the past year, and even though I know the mechanics behind a few illusions, I'm still amazed when a performer pulls it off seamlessly. You see, tricks require hand control, timing and style. It's like juggling. Just because you know how juggling works doesn't make it any less cool to watch.
SPEAKER: Wow, I know it's just gravity making the swords fall back after each throw, but it's still so cool to watch him juggle.
SPEAKER: Swords? These aren't just swords. They're also magical doves.
[DOVE WINGS FLUTTERING]
SPEAKER: What? Magicians are amazing.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Maybe the coolest thing about magicians, though, is that they make the impossible seem possible. A good magician will work so fast and do so many amazing things that at some point, you just give up trying to figure it all out, and you let the wonder sweep over you. It gets your imagination racing and your blood pumping. And despite yourself, you'll soon start to believe that anything can happen, even a cow that flies. Behold, Sassy with wings.
[SASSY MOOING]
Ha, The Great Sandini strikes again. Yeah!
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, my. Sassy had wings? Are you kidding me?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Oh, hold on. I gotta get her out of the studio. It's taking a lot of space with these wings.
ANNA WEGGEL: What a surprise. OK, Elliot, what did you think about Sanden's Declaration of Greatness? Did any moments in his argument really stand out?
ELLIOT: Yeah, I think probably the best part was the who still uses cash part because I mean, it's kind of true.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Really good point. OK, Gregory, it's time for your rebuttal. Tell us why magic is all smoke and mirrors. You've got 30 seconds. And go.
GREGORY PARKS: OK, so magicians may teach you to be skeptical, but a good clown can also teach you empathy or also provide you an escape from whatever is weighing you down and making your day into a completely bummer. Magicians are also selfish. They guard their secrets, and they only want you to adore them. And finally, if magicians are being clumsy or messing up on purpose as part of their act, guess what? They're using clowning. Hmm-hmm.
ANNA WEGGEL: Hmm-hmm. And time.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I mean, you want to talk about good at helping you escape. You're going to want a magician with that. They're experts at it, I've heard. And yeah, we guard our secrets but if you want to learn magic, there are plenty of books, plenty of places to get started. I recently started it, and it is my favorite new hobby. It's so fun to grab a deck of cards and start flipping them around or practicing sleight of hand.
And truth be told, it stops me from picking up my phone constantly. Now, I'm fidgeting with magic tricks instead of with my phone. So I actually think learning magic and getting past that wall of secrets is great for any young person out there.
ANNA WEGGEL: All right, Elliot, give one point to the Declaration of Greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Awards your points, but don't tell us who's getting those points.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes, yes, yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Excellent. Sanden and Gregory, how are you two feeling so far?
GREGORY PARKS: Well, actually, I'm glad that this rivalry is not a real rivalry because I actually want to talk with Sanden some more. I want to learn about Sanden's journey and what drew him to magic.
ANNA WEGGEL: Is this your technique for getting under his skin?
GREGORY PARKS: Well, I had a good clown friend who spent a lot of time-- I got to watch him practice sleight of hand a lot, so--
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, OK.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I didn't know clowns do so much sleight of hand. That's great. We could practice some techniques here. I bet you I could take your big red nose and make it disappear in my hand and reappear out of your ear.
GREGORY PARKS: We could be a super team, Sanden. Like if you started working with bigger illusions, I could be your assistant.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Gregory, let's blow this lousy show and get on the road together.
ANNA WEGGEL: I was going to say, let's see if you feel the same way at the end of this debate, you two.
[LAUGHTER]
OK, it's time for a quick break. So grab some pies for throwing and boxes for sawing, and we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
PRESENTER: You're watching State of Debate. Home to rage in rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hello, debate friends. Taylor Lincoln here with my favorite debate connoisseur, Todd Douglas.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hmm. Hmm.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: (WHISPERING) Todd, we're on the air.
TODD DOUGLAS: Oh, gosh. So sorry. Hmm. This muffin is so tasty it almost made me forget about debate for a second.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Todd!
TODD DOUGLAS: I said almost.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Phew!
TODD DOUGLAS: I found this muffin as I was hunting down a logical fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Logical fallacies make me lose my appetite. They don't stand up to scrutiny and make your arguments weaker. Uck.
TODD DOUGLAS: Well, I stumbled upon two muffins engaging in the correlation, not causation fallacy. That's when you give a coincidence way too much credit.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Muffins?
TODD DOUGLAS: Let's listen in.
MUFFIN 1: Woo, sure is getting hot in this oven.
MUFFIN 2: Well, what do you know, a talking muffin.
MUFFIN 1: Hey, you're a talking muffin, too. Any other talking muffins in here? Anyone? Guess not.
MUFFIN 2: Why can we talk and those other muffins over there can't?
MUFFIN 1: Oh, look, we both have six raisins on top. The others, one, two, three, they only have three. That must be the reason we're so chatty.
MUFFIN 2: Are you sure it's not because of the spell that witch put on only the two of us?
MUFFIN 1: What? Preposterous! It's obviously because of the number of raisins we have on top.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yuck! That talking muffin made the bogus assumption that it was the number of raisins that gave them the gift of gab. Its closed its mind to other better ideas. That's a fallacy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Yeah, no wonder these muffins are so delicious. They're enchanted. Do you want one?
MUFFIN 1: Please don't eat me.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: I'll pass.
TODD DOUGLAS: What? Is it because they talk?
TAYLOR LINCOLN: No, it's because food that uses logical fallacies has no place in this tummy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Fair. Well, that's it for today's debate, dudes. We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
PRESENTER: Brains On! Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
SPEAKER: Its alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. How about Forever Ago? My favorite history podcast.
SPEAKER: Whoa, I was not expecting that to work or for it to sound this good.
JOY DOLO: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
[DJ AIR HORN]
DJ Dolo. When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza!
SPEAKER: Ba--
SPEAKER: Zorp! Signal town. Stay right there, tummy togas. Must find Forever Ago now!
PRESENTER: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
(SINGING) Boom, boom-boom
Boom, boom-boom
Boom Smash Best
ANNA WEGGEL: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Anna Weggel.
ELLIOT: And I'm your judge, Elliot.
ANNA WEGGEL: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this transporting debate idea from Lucy.
LUCY: Hi, my name is Lucy. And I'm from New South Wales, Australia. And my debate idea is road trips versus plane trips.
ELLIOT: Now that's a debate that I'll send you packing.
ANNA WEGGEL: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Lucy thinks should win.
ELLIOT: And now it's back to our debate, clowns versus magicians.
ANNA WEGGEL: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro-Round.
ANNA WEGGEL: For Micro-Round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Gregory and Sanden, the prompt was be my roommate. Gregory and Sanden, we all know that finding roommates is really hard. So for this challenge, we asked you to write a really compelling roommate ad.
Make us want to be your roomie. Gregory went first last time. So, Sanden, you're up. Tell us why Houdini would make a good roomie.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Wanted. Roommate for a pad in a Victorian mansion on the corner of Siegfried and Roy. It's super spacious, with plenty of storage, if you just stuff things inside my bottomless top hat. Your room is very private. In fact, it's hidden behind a bookshelf. Just pull the tattered copy of The Wizard of Oz to open the door.
[CREAKING DOOR SOUND]
Oh, and I hope you're not afraid of heights because the bed levitates from time to time. We don't have a laundry chute, but there are plenty of trap doors you can drop your dirty duds into. Feel free to gaze into the crystal in the living room, to see your future, get answers to burning questions or stream Netflix and YouTube. I can promise there will always be fresh flowers around.
I pull them from my sleeve daily. Rent is $700. I'll pull it from behind your ear on the first of each month. Oh, and we'll split utilities and groceries down the middle. Don't worry, I'll be fair. I'm really good at cutting things in half. Just ask my assistant.
[SASSY MOOING]
You'll have to help keep the place tidy. But feel free to use my magic wand to make dirty dishes and little messes disappear. We'll share the main closet. But be warned, I have a lot of capes in there. Must love bunnies and doves.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, I'm so glad Sassy made a cameo.
SANDEN TOTTEN: You have to live with a giant cow. I hope that's acceptable. It sounds like Elliot already is used to having cows, right? You live on a farm, right?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, he knows all about it. Gregory, now it's your turn. Show us why a clown would make the perfect roommate.
GREGORY PARKS: I'm a clown. Yes, a real clown. I've been around the kind of clowns that you think all clowns are, loud, messy, slipping on banana peels. I know, but if you are a responsible adult who's OK with some steamer trunks and a lot of circus posters, I could be the roommate for you. I'm 6 feet tall with arms like albatross wings.
But if you need to reach something way up like changing a light bulb or getting a tchotchke off a shelf, I can strap on some stilts. Done. Have other roommates broken your stuff? I won't. I do not mess with other people's props. And since I can pack a Volkswagen Beetle with 20 full grown adults, imagine how skilled I am with putting things away. Laundry? Put away. Dishes? Put away.
Seven pairs of clown shoes? You'll find them where you expect them. Out of the way. Tripping on them is my job, not yours. Need makeup tips, lines, blending? I got you. And I don't bring my work home. You won't see me wandering the house in full greasepaint and a bright red nose. When I'm clocked out, I'm clocked out. No noisy, messy doves. No fake mystical secrets.
No one asking you to pick a card or trying to saw you in half. Prepare to experience a marvel in adulting roommates. Be one of the few people who can say they live with an actual clown. We're smarter than you think. Seriously.
ANNA WEGGEL: Now, Gregory, if we have a lifelong dream of being sawed in half, is that still on the table for a potential roommate, or--
GREGORY PARKS: I would not-- that's outside my expertise. I would pass it on to-- I would pass that job on to a professional, perhaps like Sanden.
ANNA WEGGEL: Got it.
GREGORY PARKS: Especially now since I know Sanden, so contacts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, Elliot, what did you like about Gregory and Sanden's Micro-Rounds?
ELLIOT: Well, I really liked the part where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm 6 foot. I thought that was kind of funny. And also Netflix, I mean, pretty good, pretty good.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm and watching it on a crystal ball. That's the high def of those alone.
ELLIOT: I mean, pretty special, pretty special.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Plus, they can see into the future, so you're already watching season 5 of Stranger Things.
ELLIOT: Woof.
ANNA WEGGEL: It's time to award a point, but don't tell us who you're voting for.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
SPEAKER: Haha! Ooha!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
ANNA WEGGEL: This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called workout challenge. Sanden and Gregory, you're going to narrate a funky, fresh dance workout video as a clown or a magician. Tell us what moves were making, what muscles were flexing, and why we should watch your video. Debaters, are you ready for your sneak attack?
GREGORY PARKS: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm-hmm.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, Gregory, you're up first. Give us your best clown-tastic workout.
GREGORY PARKS: All right, everybody, so up on our feet. We're going to march in place. Lift those knees up, because those shoes are long. You don't want to trip over those toes. Lift your feet up. That's right. 3, 2, 1 and breathe. Breathe in. Breathe out. Let those lips just [LIPS BLUBBERING] like letting air out of a balloon. And then just shake your body.
Your limbs are noodles. Shake, shake, shake. Oh, yeah, nice and loose. And then fall down. And then get back up. Brush yourself off. One more. Fall down. Get back up. Brush off. And wait, look behind you. What was that? Look back front. Look behind you again. What was that? Back in front of you. And now, we're going to cool down. We're going to wave our bodies like we're really sleepy. [SNORES]
ANNA WEGGEL: And he fell asleep.
GREGORY PARKS: Just snore as loud as you want. And get up! Wake up, wake up, wake up. You're late for work. Find your shoes. Find your shoes. Find your jacket. Find your jacket. Find your keys. Where are your keys? Where did you put your keys? Oh, no, where are your keys? [SCREAMS] And relax.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yay. Oh, that is exhilarating. That was exciting.
GREGORY PARKS: You need to do levels.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, absolutely. OK, Sanden, it is now your turn. Show us how magicians can work up a sweat.
SANDEN TOTTEN: OK, here we go. We're going to do some mag-ercising, all right. So first, grab your magic hat here. And we're going to do some stretches by reaching into that hat and stretch. And reach down into the hat. Keep going. Keep going. Deeper, deeper. Yep, yep, all the way to the floor. Oh, keep going past the floor. Yep. And now pull out a bunny. That's right.
And set the bunny down. We're going to hop like the bunny. Hop like the bunny. Shake your little tail. Hop like the bunny. Oh, that's some good cardio right there. OK, now, I want you to use your magic fingers. And wave and poof. And wave and poof. And oh, look at that. You made a tiger appear, and it's really angry. OK, so run from the tiger. Run from the tiger. That's it. Keep running.
Oh, that's good cardio right there. The fear really helps get the blood pumping. I love it. All right. OK. Now, everybody, the tiger's gone. Here we go. 1, 2, 3, poof. And we're going to do a simple little trick here. Everybody just follow with me and levitate. Yep, that's it. Float in the air and levitate and levitate. Elliott, you're looking great. Great floating. And levitate and lev-- OK. And come back to the ground.
All right. Didn't that feel good? Woo, you worked up a sweat now. Just pull a hanky out from your sleeve and keep pulling and keep pulling and keep pulling. OK, and wipe your forehead. There we go. And poof, it's a dove. All right, great job, everybody.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yay. Now Sanden, during the levitation portion, I did remain in my seat. Is that bad?
SANDEN TOTTEN: That's beginner. Beginner. You'll get there.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, thank you so much. All right, Elliot, think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. But don't tell us who you're giving it to.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Perfect. Then it's time for our final round--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
ANNA WEGGEL: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. All right, Sanden, let's hear your six words for magicians.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sharpen your mind. Awaken your wonder.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh.
GREGORY PARKS: Ooh.
ANNA WEGGEL: Amazing. OK, Gregory, it's your turn. Give us six words for clowns.
GREGORY PARKS: Great people. Serious fun. No fooling.
ANNA WEGGEL: Ooh-ooh.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm-hmm.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, Elliot, it's time to award a point for the Final Six.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Drumroll, please. And the winner is--
ELLIOT: Magicians.
GREGORY PARKS: Ah!
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Hocus pocus. Oh, yes!
GREGORY PARKS: Womp, womp. I have egg on my face.
ANNA WEGGEL: So, Elliott, was there a moment that decided things for you?
ELLIOT: Probably the Sneak Attack, actually. It was just so energetic, you know?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I disappeared several cups of coffee before this so--
ELLIOT: That probably helps.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I came by it through a little performance enhancing cold brew.
ELLIOT: That definitely helped.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, goodness.
GREGORY PARKS: It was really easy for me to appreciate my opponent because it's true what Sanden said. Even if you learn how a trick works, that still makes it all the more amazing, because somebody took the time to figure that out. And then they practiced and practiced, and they still practiced. That is amazing. It is impressive. And I am always floored by that very same thing. So that's what hit me the hardest.
ANNA WEGGEL: Mm.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah. Gregory was great. I really thought, first of all, whoopie cushion, 10 out of 10. No notes. Couldn't improve that at all. But also, you bring such-- the thing about clowns and that you really exemplify is the heart. They're all about making you laugh, but there's so much heart to it. I felt the warmth through the microphone thousands of miles away from you, and I still felt the warmth in all your arguments and your presence. And that, to me, is the sign of a great clown.
ANNA WEGGEL: And that's it for today's debate. Elliott crowned magicians the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ELLIOT: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
ANNA WEGGEL: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! And APM Studios. It's produced by me, Anna Weggel--
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
ANNA WEGGEL: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez and Zach Miller with sound design by--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
ANNA WEGGEL: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
ANNA WEGGEL: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
ANNA WEGGEL: With fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
ANNA WEGGEL: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On! Universe Team.
ROSE DUPONT: Rose Dupont.
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
ANNA WEGGEL: And--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEGGEL: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Cavoti and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Gregory, is there anyone you want to give a shout out to today?
GREGORY PARKS: I would like to give a shout out to all of those clowns out there, big and small, people who work within makeup without makeup, and even my friends who straddle the line of magicians and clowns. They dabble in both. And anybody who's just trying to make the world better for even just one person.
ANNA WEGGEL: Aw. How about you, Sanden? Any special shoutouts?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah, I want to shout out Charlie Mount and my magic 101 class. Everyone in there, great job. It was so fun. And my friend Matt Bruce a.k.a. Matt-Acadabra who did magic at my 40th birthday. Thanks, dude. You really got me into magic as an adult. And I love it.
ANNA WEGGEL: Do you want to give any special thanks, Elliot?
ELLIOT: Yeah, I want to do it to my sisters, Emma, Eliza, and my brother Ero. And of course, the most important, WD-40.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Before we go, let's check in and see who Lucy thinks should win the road trips versus plane trips debate.
LUCY: I think planes are better because they are quicker, better, and sometimes they have movies.
ELLIOT: Smash Boom Best is a non-profit public radio program.
ANNA WEGGEL: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock down drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pants for bonus episodes and ad free versions of all four shows in the Brains On! Universe. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week, ketchup versus ranch. Bye!
ELLIOT: Bye-bye.
GREGORY PARKS: See ya.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Poof! I'm gone.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, put you through the test
Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, better than the rest
You're the Smash Boom Best
You're the Smash Boom Best
SANDEN TOTTEN: All right, I'm going to stand up for this. But, Gregory, don't put a whoopie cushion on my chair. Actually, do. I love a whoopie cushion. Put as many as you want.
GREGORY PARKS: I might. I might not.
ANNA WEGGEL: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Hi, I'm Anna Weggel filling in for Molly Bloom. And this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a real showstopper. Grab your rubber noses and magic wands because it's clowns versus magicians. We've got actor and professional clown Gregory Parks ready to put the whoop and whoopie cushion for team clowns.
GREGORY PARKS: Hello, everybody. Let's get ready to have some serious fun.
ANNA WEGGEL: And wait, what's that behind your ear? Why, it's Brains On! co-creator and editor Sanden Totten here to defend magicians.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Anna, I've got my top hat, and I'm ready to pull a rabbit and a win.
ANNA WEGGEL: And here to judge it all is Elliott. Elliott is a part of a robotics club, has a YouTube channel with his dad, and knows how to catch a running chicken. Welcome back, Elliot.
ELLIOT: Hi.
ANNA WEGGEL: So Elliot, can you tell us about a robot that you've helped design?
ELLIOT: I made this robot called Triangle Bot, and it was a triangle. It was not really good at anything, but it was a triangle instead of a square, so it was interesting.
ANNA WEGGEL: I've never seen a triangle robot. That sounds really cool. Did it do anything?
ELLIOT: Yeah, it could drive around. It was like a cheese wedge kind of. It was kind of silly.
ANNA WEGGEL: That's amazing. Did you name it?
ELLIOT: Cheese wedge.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, we have to hear more about this chicken thing. So how did you learn to catch a chicken?
ELLIOT: OK, so they're really fast. They're not slow at all. You'd think they'd be slow, but their-- chickens are actually pretty fast. So how do you get them is we're a lot smarter than them. So you open up a door for them and then when you chase them into the door, they'll go to the door, and then you can just slam the door shut. But they're like running for cover. And they'll be like, I want to go under cover.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, so it's more about outsmarting them and tricking them than chasing them?
ELLIOT: Yeah.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK.
ELLIOT: Because you can't really catch one by just running.
ANNA WEGGEL: It sounds like you've had a lot of practice with this. Is this something you have to do on a daily basis?
ELLIOT: I have to do it every once in a while if one of them escapes or whatever.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh my gosh. I wonder if this skill will translate into other areas of your life.
ELLIOT: I'm not sure if it will, but I mean, chickens. Yay.
ANNA WEGGEL: Time will tell. So this is not your first time judging. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?
ELLIOT: Don't lean too hard in trying to go after your opponent. That's kind of just time that doesn't really mean anything. And you could use it for facts or jokes or whatever.
ANNA WEGGEL: Mm, so don't play dirty. Go high is what you're saying?
ELLIOT: Yeah.
ANNA WEGGEL: Excellent advice, not only in this debate, but in life. Will Elliot side with Gregory or Sanden? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds, the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro-Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge Elliott will award points to the team that impresses him the most, but he'll keep his decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. And at the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Gregory, Sanden and Elliot, are you ready?
GREGORY PARKS: Ready.
ELLIOT: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm-hmm. Let's bring it on.
GREGORY PARKS: Let's go.
ANNA WEGGEL: Then it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
ANNA WEGGEL: In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Gregory, you're up first. Tell us why clowns are your preferred performers.
GREGORY PARKS: You might think clowns are a joke, a bunch of big dudes riding teeny tiny bicycles. Well, think again, my friends. Us clowns are a serious bunch. Seriously talented. Seriously funny. Seriously powerful. [FART SOUND] Oh, sat on my whoopie cushion. As I was saying, I've been a clown for 25 years, but I remember the first time I performed with the Ringling Brothers Circus like it was yesterday.
I was backstage sweating in my greasepaint, nervously fiddling with my big red nose. This was my first big gig with graduates of Ringling Brothers Clown College, which, by the way, was harder to get into than the fanciest, shmanciest colleges. And--
SPEAKER: Hey Greg, it's go time.
GREGORY PARKS: As we walked down the hallway toward the big, bright arena, my heart started pounding. The stadium was packed. 18,000 people were in the stands going wild. As I gazed up at balcony after balcony of beaming faces, my heart skipped a beat. It confirmed what I already knew. Clowns are beloved. No matter what makes you giggle, I cross my heart and guarantee there's a clown out there that'll make you go, heeheehee.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
There are whitefaced clowns with red noses, auguste clowns who are mostly just funny actors, mimes who don't talk, bullfighting rodeo clowns and even jesters who performed for kings and queens. Us clowns can juggle knives, play musical instruments, tell killer jokes, walk on stilts, wrangle bucking broncos, do backflips, make insanely cute balloon animals.
Oh, and did I mention do magic tricks? Yeah, clowns can do what magicians do, only funnier. We can't help it. We've been making people laugh for thousands of years since ancient Egypt. That's right. You can even find clowns in ancient hieroglyphics.
ANNA WEGGEL: Where do pharaohs go when they want a break from being in charge? Denial.
GREGORY PARKS: After that, clowns popped up around the world in China, India, Japan, Europe, Africa, Russia. And these jesters, or fools, as they were called, often worked for noblemen and royalty. For example, Mathurine the Fool was the court jester for three French kings in the Renaissance. One time, a lady in waiting said--
FRENCH LADY: Ugh, I don't like having a fool on my right side.
GREGORY PARKS: And Mathurine the Fool, with a twinkle in her eye, jumped to the lady's other side and said--
MATHURINE THE FOOL: I don't mind it at all.
GREGORY PARKS: And you know what happens when you add seriously talented and seriously funny together. You get seriously powerful, my bro. Shakespeare put a whole bunch of jesters in his plays. And they were almost always wiser than everyone else. As Touchstone the Fool in the play As You Like It says--
TOUCHSTONE THE FOOL: The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
GREGORY PARKS: To translate, a foolish person thinks they're way smarter than they actually are, but a wise person realizes how much there is left to learn. Being wise isn't the only way clowns are powerful. We're also emotionally powerful. We can make people laugh so hard they pee their pants and make them so scared they start crying their eyes out. Isn't that right, little Lou?
LOU: I'm not scared, Greg. OK, maybe a little.
GREGORY PARKS: Sometimes people think clowns are scary because behind our face paint, our expressions can be hard to read, and sometimes we do surprising things like pull a coin out of little Lou's ear. Wow, maybe you should clean in there. And for my next trick, I'm going to make you a balloon animal. What do you want, Lou, Lou?
LOU: An axolotl.
GREGORY PARKS: An axo-what-otl?
LOU: An axolotl.
GREGORY PARKS: Oh, an axe that waddles. Let me make one. Chop, chop. Clowning takes serious skills and serious emotional power, but I do it, we all do it because we have a special calling, to make people laugh.
[FART SOUND]
LOU: Uh, Greg.
GREGORY PARKS: Not my whoopie cushion again.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, big doof's riding teeny tiny bicycles. So much more. Elliot, what stood out to you about Gregory's Declaration of Greatness?
ELLIOT: I really liked all the reoccurring things like the whoopie cushion at the beginning and the end and the little girl. That 0 really funny, honestly, having a little girl go, heeheeheehee.
ANNA WEGGEL: Amazing. OK, Elliot like the callbacks. Everyone take note. OK, Sanden, It's time for your rebuttal. Tell us why clowns are real jokers. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
SANDEN TOTTEN: OK, Anna. Clowns are beloved? Well, how many horror movies have you seen starring clowns? Tons. Magicians? Not so much because clowns, they're not just hiding their emotion without a makeup or a little surprising. They kind of fit into the uncanny of humans. They sort of seem normal, but there's something off about them. I don't know. They give people the heebie jeebies. They need to cut it out.
Also, clowns, yes, they're good at making you laugh, but it's one note. It's the same over and over again. Magicians, we make you gasp. We make you wonder. We make you laugh--
ANNA WEGGEL: That's time.
SANDEN TOTTEN: We're like the full fruit section. Clowns are just like--
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, OK, OK. Gregory, do you have anything to say in return?
GREGORY PARKS: Yes, the reason why we look that uncanny valley is not because we are not human, but we are more human than human. Clowns encompass the entire range of human emotion. We are up. We are down. We are introspective. We are extroverted. We do everything, my friends. We are not afraid of emotions. We are not afraid to share emotions. And those emotions are how we connect with our audience.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, it's your turn, Sanden. Show us the razzle dazzle for Team Magicians.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Debates and gentle judges, prepare to be stunned as I, The Great Sandini, make my assistant, Sassy the Cow, disappear. Ready, Sassy?
SASSY THE CLOWN: [MOOING]
SANDEN TOTTEN: Ala-cow-zam! What's that? Oh, you don't see Sassy? That's the whole point. You see, I made her-- oh, you couldn't see her before she disappeared? Right. Podcast. No worries. I have lots of other amazing illusions for your ears. Listen as I play you a beat. Do you hear how it's getting faster and faster? But hold on. Why isn't it just a blur of sounds at this point? You can still hear each individual drumbeat. The trick is, it's not actually getting faster. It's an illusion.
[TRUMPETS BLOWING]
Or marvel at this tone that sounds like it's getting higher and higher. But wait a minute, if it actually kept getting higher in pitch, eventually, you just wouldn't be able to hear it. Yet you hear it just fine. Ha, another illusion.
[TRUMPETS BLOWING]
You see, that's the thing about magicians. We can make wonder wherever, whenever, with whatever.
[CROWD OOHING]
Sure, some magicians work with huge stage props, making tigers appear out of thin air.
[TIGER GROWLING]
[CROWD OOHING]
Or sawing their assistants in half.
[SAWING SOUND]
Ta-da!
[CROWD OOHING]
Don't worry, Sassy's fine. But we can also do astounding feats with small things like a deck of cards. Picture any card. Is your card the three of hearts? Nailed it. We can even blow your mind with simple everyday objects like rubber bands, pencils or coins.
SPEAKER: What's that behind your ear, Olivia? Wow, look, a quarter. Here you go.
OLIVIA: Just transfer it to my phone, mom. Who still uses cash?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Plus, magicians make any event better, whether it's a birthday party, a dinner party, even a wedding. You may now put the ring on your beloved's finger.
SPEAKER: But look, the ring is already on their finger.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Magica. A clown at a wedding will be asked to leave the wedding.
SPEAKER: But wait, don't you want to see what my flower does first?
SPEAKER: Ugh, it shoots seltz-- I bet it shoots seltzer.
SPEAKER: It shoots seltzer.
[HORN TOOTING]
SPEAKER: Please go.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Magicians can work in lots of styles too. Some tell stories or do stunts. Some are mysterious and spooky. Others are goofy and playful. But unlike clowning around, watching magicians is good for your brain. That's because it teaches you to be skeptical, to question. You see, when you see magic, you know it's a trick, but it still fools you.
Later, you wonder how the performer did that. What tools and techniques did they use? In a world full of fake news stories, AI generated images, and scammers, understanding tricks is more important than ever. Magicians help you practice those skills in a fun, safe way. Clowns help you practice much less useful skills like pretending to laugh.
[HORN TOOTING]
SPEAKER: [LAUGHS] Yeah, that was great. The whole pie in the face thing. Yeah, well, I got to go to my hair-- I mean, my doctor's appointment. Bye.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Plus, understanding how a trick is done doesn't ruin the magic. I've been taking magic classes for the past year, and even though I know the mechanics behind a few illusions, I'm still amazed when a performer pulls it off seamlessly. You see, tricks require hand control, timing and style. It's like juggling. Just because you know how juggling works doesn't make it any less cool to watch.
SPEAKER: Wow, I know it's just gravity making the swords fall back after each throw, but it's still so cool to watch him juggle.
SPEAKER: Swords? These aren't just swords. They're also magical doves.
[DOVE WINGS FLUTTERING]
SPEAKER: What? Magicians are amazing.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Maybe the coolest thing about magicians, though, is that they make the impossible seem possible. A good magician will work so fast and do so many amazing things that at some point, you just give up trying to figure it all out, and you let the wonder sweep over you. It gets your imagination racing and your blood pumping. And despite yourself, you'll soon start to believe that anything can happen, even a cow that flies. Behold, Sassy with wings.
[SASSY MOOING]
Ha, The Great Sandini strikes again. Yeah!
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, my. Sassy had wings? Are you kidding me?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Oh, hold on. I gotta get her out of the studio. It's taking a lot of space with these wings.
ANNA WEGGEL: What a surprise. OK, Elliot, what did you think about Sanden's Declaration of Greatness? Did any moments in his argument really stand out?
ELLIOT: Yeah, I think probably the best part was the who still uses cash part because I mean, it's kind of true.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Really good point. OK, Gregory, it's time for your rebuttal. Tell us why magic is all smoke and mirrors. You've got 30 seconds. And go.
GREGORY PARKS: OK, so magicians may teach you to be skeptical, but a good clown can also teach you empathy or also provide you an escape from whatever is weighing you down and making your day into a completely bummer. Magicians are also selfish. They guard their secrets, and they only want you to adore them. And finally, if magicians are being clumsy or messing up on purpose as part of their act, guess what? They're using clowning. Hmm-hmm.
ANNA WEGGEL: Hmm-hmm. And time.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I mean, you want to talk about good at helping you escape. You're going to want a magician with that. They're experts at it, I've heard. And yeah, we guard our secrets but if you want to learn magic, there are plenty of books, plenty of places to get started. I recently started it, and it is my favorite new hobby. It's so fun to grab a deck of cards and start flipping them around or practicing sleight of hand.
And truth be told, it stops me from picking up my phone constantly. Now, I'm fidgeting with magic tricks instead of with my phone. So I actually think learning magic and getting past that wall of secrets is great for any young person out there.
ANNA WEGGEL: All right, Elliot, give one point to the Declaration of Greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Awards your points, but don't tell us who's getting those points.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes, yes, yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Excellent. Sanden and Gregory, how are you two feeling so far?
GREGORY PARKS: Well, actually, I'm glad that this rivalry is not a real rivalry because I actually want to talk with Sanden some more. I want to learn about Sanden's journey and what drew him to magic.
ANNA WEGGEL: Is this your technique for getting under his skin?
GREGORY PARKS: Well, I had a good clown friend who spent a lot of time-- I got to watch him practice sleight of hand a lot, so--
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, OK.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I didn't know clowns do so much sleight of hand. That's great. We could practice some techniques here. I bet you I could take your big red nose and make it disappear in my hand and reappear out of your ear.
GREGORY PARKS: We could be a super team, Sanden. Like if you started working with bigger illusions, I could be your assistant.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Gregory, let's blow this lousy show and get on the road together.
ANNA WEGGEL: I was going to say, let's see if you feel the same way at the end of this debate, you two.
[LAUGHTER]
OK, it's time for a quick break. So grab some pies for throwing and boxes for sawing, and we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
PRESENTER: You're watching State of Debate. Home to rage in rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hello, debate friends. Taylor Lincoln here with my favorite debate connoisseur, Todd Douglas.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hmm. Hmm.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: (WHISPERING) Todd, we're on the air.
TODD DOUGLAS: Oh, gosh. So sorry. Hmm. This muffin is so tasty it almost made me forget about debate for a second.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Todd!
TODD DOUGLAS: I said almost.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Phew!
TODD DOUGLAS: I found this muffin as I was hunting down a logical fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Logical fallacies make me lose my appetite. They don't stand up to scrutiny and make your arguments weaker. Uck.
TODD DOUGLAS: Well, I stumbled upon two muffins engaging in the correlation, not causation fallacy. That's when you give a coincidence way too much credit.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Muffins?
TODD DOUGLAS: Let's listen in.
MUFFIN 1: Woo, sure is getting hot in this oven.
MUFFIN 2: Well, what do you know, a talking muffin.
MUFFIN 1: Hey, you're a talking muffin, too. Any other talking muffins in here? Anyone? Guess not.
MUFFIN 2: Why can we talk and those other muffins over there can't?
MUFFIN 1: Oh, look, we both have six raisins on top. The others, one, two, three, they only have three. That must be the reason we're so chatty.
MUFFIN 2: Are you sure it's not because of the spell that witch put on only the two of us?
MUFFIN 1: What? Preposterous! It's obviously because of the number of raisins we have on top.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yuck! That talking muffin made the bogus assumption that it was the number of raisins that gave them the gift of gab. Its closed its mind to other better ideas. That's a fallacy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Yeah, no wonder these muffins are so delicious. They're enchanted. Do you want one?
MUFFIN 1: Please don't eat me.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: I'll pass.
TODD DOUGLAS: What? Is it because they talk?
TAYLOR LINCOLN: No, it's because food that uses logical fallacies has no place in this tummy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Fair. Well, that's it for today's debate, dudes. We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
PRESENTER: Brains On! Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
SPEAKER: Its alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. How about Forever Ago? My favorite history podcast.
SPEAKER: Whoa, I was not expecting that to work or for it to sound this good.
JOY DOLO: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
[DJ AIR HORN]
DJ Dolo. When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza!
SPEAKER: Ba--
SPEAKER: Zorp! Signal town. Stay right there, tummy togas. Must find Forever Ago now!
PRESENTER: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
(SINGING) Boom, boom-boom
Boom, boom-boom
Boom Smash Best
ANNA WEGGEL: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Anna Weggel.
ELLIOT: And I'm your judge, Elliot.
ANNA WEGGEL: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this transporting debate idea from Lucy.
LUCY: Hi, my name is Lucy. And I'm from New South Wales, Australia. And my debate idea is road trips versus plane trips.
ELLIOT: Now that's a debate that I'll send you packing.
ANNA WEGGEL: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Lucy thinks should win.
ELLIOT: And now it's back to our debate, clowns versus magicians.
ANNA WEGGEL: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro-Round.
ANNA WEGGEL: For Micro-Round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Gregory and Sanden, the prompt was be my roommate. Gregory and Sanden, we all know that finding roommates is really hard. So for this challenge, we asked you to write a really compelling roommate ad.
Make us want to be your roomie. Gregory went first last time. So, Sanden, you're up. Tell us why Houdini would make a good roomie.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Wanted. Roommate for a pad in a Victorian mansion on the corner of Siegfried and Roy. It's super spacious, with plenty of storage, if you just stuff things inside my bottomless top hat. Your room is very private. In fact, it's hidden behind a bookshelf. Just pull the tattered copy of The Wizard of Oz to open the door.
[CREAKING DOOR SOUND]
Oh, and I hope you're not afraid of heights because the bed levitates from time to time. We don't have a laundry chute, but there are plenty of trap doors you can drop your dirty duds into. Feel free to gaze into the crystal in the living room, to see your future, get answers to burning questions or stream Netflix and YouTube. I can promise there will always be fresh flowers around.
I pull them from my sleeve daily. Rent is $700. I'll pull it from behind your ear on the first of each month. Oh, and we'll split utilities and groceries down the middle. Don't worry, I'll be fair. I'm really good at cutting things in half. Just ask my assistant.
[SASSY MOOING]
You'll have to help keep the place tidy. But feel free to use my magic wand to make dirty dishes and little messes disappear. We'll share the main closet. But be warned, I have a lot of capes in there. Must love bunnies and doves.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, I'm so glad Sassy made a cameo.
SANDEN TOTTEN: You have to live with a giant cow. I hope that's acceptable. It sounds like Elliot already is used to having cows, right? You live on a farm, right?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, he knows all about it. Gregory, now it's your turn. Show us why a clown would make the perfect roommate.
GREGORY PARKS: I'm a clown. Yes, a real clown. I've been around the kind of clowns that you think all clowns are, loud, messy, slipping on banana peels. I know, but if you are a responsible adult who's OK with some steamer trunks and a lot of circus posters, I could be the roommate for you. I'm 6 feet tall with arms like albatross wings.
But if you need to reach something way up like changing a light bulb or getting a tchotchke off a shelf, I can strap on some stilts. Done. Have other roommates broken your stuff? I won't. I do not mess with other people's props. And since I can pack a Volkswagen Beetle with 20 full grown adults, imagine how skilled I am with putting things away. Laundry? Put away. Dishes? Put away.
Seven pairs of clown shoes? You'll find them where you expect them. Out of the way. Tripping on them is my job, not yours. Need makeup tips, lines, blending? I got you. And I don't bring my work home. You won't see me wandering the house in full greasepaint and a bright red nose. When I'm clocked out, I'm clocked out. No noisy, messy doves. No fake mystical secrets.
No one asking you to pick a card or trying to saw you in half. Prepare to experience a marvel in adulting roommates. Be one of the few people who can say they live with an actual clown. We're smarter than you think. Seriously.
ANNA WEGGEL: Now, Gregory, if we have a lifelong dream of being sawed in half, is that still on the table for a potential roommate, or--
GREGORY PARKS: I would not-- that's outside my expertise. I would pass it on to-- I would pass that job on to a professional, perhaps like Sanden.
ANNA WEGGEL: Got it.
GREGORY PARKS: Especially now since I know Sanden, so contacts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, Elliot, what did you like about Gregory and Sanden's Micro-Rounds?
ELLIOT: Well, I really liked the part where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm 6 foot. I thought that was kind of funny. And also Netflix, I mean, pretty good, pretty good.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm and watching it on a crystal ball. That's the high def of those alone.
ELLIOT: I mean, pretty special, pretty special.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Plus, they can see into the future, so you're already watching season 5 of Stranger Things.
ELLIOT: Woof.
ANNA WEGGEL: It's time to award a point, but don't tell us who you're voting for.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
SPEAKER: Haha! Ooha!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
ANNA WEGGEL: This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called workout challenge. Sanden and Gregory, you're going to narrate a funky, fresh dance workout video as a clown or a magician. Tell us what moves were making, what muscles were flexing, and why we should watch your video. Debaters, are you ready for your sneak attack?
GREGORY PARKS: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm-hmm.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, Gregory, you're up first. Give us your best clown-tastic workout.
GREGORY PARKS: All right, everybody, so up on our feet. We're going to march in place. Lift those knees up, because those shoes are long. You don't want to trip over those toes. Lift your feet up. That's right. 3, 2, 1 and breathe. Breathe in. Breathe out. Let those lips just [LIPS BLUBBERING] like letting air out of a balloon. And then just shake your body.
Your limbs are noodles. Shake, shake, shake. Oh, yeah, nice and loose. And then fall down. And then get back up. Brush yourself off. One more. Fall down. Get back up. Brush off. And wait, look behind you. What was that? Look back front. Look behind you again. What was that? Back in front of you. And now, we're going to cool down. We're going to wave our bodies like we're really sleepy. [SNORES]
ANNA WEGGEL: And he fell asleep.
GREGORY PARKS: Just snore as loud as you want. And get up! Wake up, wake up, wake up. You're late for work. Find your shoes. Find your shoes. Find your jacket. Find your jacket. Find your keys. Where are your keys? Where did you put your keys? Oh, no, where are your keys? [SCREAMS] And relax.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yay. Oh, that is exhilarating. That was exciting.
GREGORY PARKS: You need to do levels.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, absolutely. OK, Sanden, it is now your turn. Show us how magicians can work up a sweat.
SANDEN TOTTEN: OK, here we go. We're going to do some mag-ercising, all right. So first, grab your magic hat here. And we're going to do some stretches by reaching into that hat and stretch. And reach down into the hat. Keep going. Keep going. Deeper, deeper. Yep, yep, all the way to the floor. Oh, keep going past the floor. Yep. And now pull out a bunny. That's right.
And set the bunny down. We're going to hop like the bunny. Hop like the bunny. Shake your little tail. Hop like the bunny. Oh, that's some good cardio right there. OK, now, I want you to use your magic fingers. And wave and poof. And wave and poof. And oh, look at that. You made a tiger appear, and it's really angry. OK, so run from the tiger. Run from the tiger. That's it. Keep running.
Oh, that's good cardio right there. The fear really helps get the blood pumping. I love it. All right. OK. Now, everybody, the tiger's gone. Here we go. 1, 2, 3, poof. And we're going to do a simple little trick here. Everybody just follow with me and levitate. Yep, that's it. Float in the air and levitate and levitate. Elliott, you're looking great. Great floating. And levitate and lev-- OK. And come back to the ground.
All right. Didn't that feel good? Woo, you worked up a sweat now. Just pull a hanky out from your sleeve and keep pulling and keep pulling and keep pulling. OK, and wipe your forehead. There we go. And poof, it's a dove. All right, great job, everybody.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yay. Now Sanden, during the levitation portion, I did remain in my seat. Is that bad?
SANDEN TOTTEN: That's beginner. Beginner. You'll get there.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, thank you so much. All right, Elliot, think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. But don't tell us who you're giving it to.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Perfect. Then it's time for our final round--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
ANNA WEGGEL: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. All right, Sanden, let's hear your six words for magicians.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sharpen your mind. Awaken your wonder.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh.
GREGORY PARKS: Ooh.
ANNA WEGGEL: Amazing. OK, Gregory, it's your turn. Give us six words for clowns.
GREGORY PARKS: Great people. Serious fun. No fooling.
ANNA WEGGEL: Ooh-ooh.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Mm-hmm.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, Elliot, it's time to award a point for the Final Six.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
ELLIOT: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Drumroll, please. And the winner is--
ELLIOT: Magicians.
GREGORY PARKS: Ah!
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Hocus pocus. Oh, yes!
GREGORY PARKS: Womp, womp. I have egg on my face.
ANNA WEGGEL: So, Elliott, was there a moment that decided things for you?
ELLIOT: Probably the Sneak Attack, actually. It was just so energetic, you know?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I disappeared several cups of coffee before this so--
ELLIOT: That probably helps.
SANDEN TOTTEN: I came by it through a little performance enhancing cold brew.
ELLIOT: That definitely helped.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, goodness.
GREGORY PARKS: It was really easy for me to appreciate my opponent because it's true what Sanden said. Even if you learn how a trick works, that still makes it all the more amazing, because somebody took the time to figure that out. And then they practiced and practiced, and they still practiced. That is amazing. It is impressive. And I am always floored by that very same thing. So that's what hit me the hardest.
ANNA WEGGEL: Mm.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah. Gregory was great. I really thought, first of all, whoopie cushion, 10 out of 10. No notes. Couldn't improve that at all. But also, you bring such-- the thing about clowns and that you really exemplify is the heart. They're all about making you laugh, but there's so much heart to it. I felt the warmth through the microphone thousands of miles away from you, and I still felt the warmth in all your arguments and your presence. And that, to me, is the sign of a great clown.
ANNA WEGGEL: And that's it for today's debate. Elliott crowned magicians the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ELLIOT: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
ANNA WEGGEL: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! And APM Studios. It's produced by me, Anna Weggel--
MOLLY BLOOM: Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
ANNA WEGGEL: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez and Zach Miller with sound design by--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
ANNA WEGGEL: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
ANNA WEGGEL: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
ANNA WEGGEL: With fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
ANNA WEGGEL: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On! Universe Team.
ROSE DUPONT: Rose Dupont.
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
ANNA WEGGEL: And--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
ANNA WEGGEL: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Cavoti and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Gregory, is there anyone you want to give a shout out to today?
GREGORY PARKS: I would like to give a shout out to all of those clowns out there, big and small, people who work within makeup without makeup, and even my friends who straddle the line of magicians and clowns. They dabble in both. And anybody who's just trying to make the world better for even just one person.
ANNA WEGGEL: Aw. How about you, Sanden? Any special shoutouts?
SANDEN TOTTEN: Yeah, I want to shout out Charlie Mount and my magic 101 class. Everyone in there, great job. It was so fun. And my friend Matt Bruce a.k.a. Matt-Acadabra who did magic at my 40th birthday. Thanks, dude. You really got me into magic as an adult. And I love it.
ANNA WEGGEL: Do you want to give any special thanks, Elliot?
ELLIOT: Yeah, I want to do it to my sisters, Emma, Eliza, and my brother Ero. And of course, the most important, WD-40.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Before we go, let's check in and see who Lucy thinks should win the road trips versus plane trips debate.
LUCY: I think planes are better because they are quicker, better, and sometimes they have movies.
ELLIOT: Smash Boom Best is a non-profit public radio program.
ANNA WEGGEL: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock down drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pants for bonus episodes and ad free versions of all four shows in the Brains On! Universe. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week, ketchup versus ranch. Bye!
ELLIOT: Bye-bye.
GREGORY PARKS: See ya.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Poof! I'm gone.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, put you through the test
Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, better than the rest
You're the Smash Boom Best
You're the Smash Boom Best
SANDEN TOTTEN: All right, I'm going to stand up for this. But, Gregory, don't put a whoopie cushion on my chair. Actually, do. I love a whoopie cushion. Put as many as you want.
GREGORY PARKS: I might. I might not.
ANNA WEGGEL: [LAUGHS]
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