Today’s debate is a boisterous bake-off between two desserts. It’s cake vs. pie! Writer and dog enthusiast Delia Bloom claims cake is the coolest, while writer and producer Mickey Bloom keeps his eye on the prize for team pie. Who will be crowned the Smash BLOOM Best? Vote below for the team YOU think won!
Also… do you have your Smarty Pass yet? Get yours today for just $5/month (or $45/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um and Forever Ago. Visit www.smartypass.org to get your Smarty Pass today. As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly!
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ANNOUNCER: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
TESSA: The show for people--
ANDREW: With big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a boisterous bake-off between two sweet treats. It's cake versus pie. We've got writer, dog enthusiast, and my sister, Delia Bloom, ready to give it her all for team cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Chocolate fudge, red velvet, tres leches, whatever the flavor, it's time to party. Let's go, cake!
MOLLY BLOOM: And writer, producer, and my brother, Mickey Bloom, is here to defend team pie.
MICKEY BLOOM: Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, ding! Pie's ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all are siblings Tessa and Andrew from Toronto, Canada. Andrew loves ice hockey and video editing, and Tessa loves debate and competitive swimming.
TESSA: Hey.
ANDREW: Hey.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Tessa, you are an avid debater. What do you think makes a solid argument?
TESSA: I would say a lot of evidence and analysis. I think being able to support your points really well is really important, like having a lot of explanation, making it really clear to the judge and the audience what you're trying to say.
ANDREW: Wow, OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Andrew is impressed. Andrew, do you have any advice for our debaters today?
ANDREW: I've honestly never debated.
MOLLY BLOOM: So maybe we should ask Tessa. What advice do you have for our debaters today?
TESSA: I think my favorite part of debates is how entertaining they are, so just have fun and keep it entertaining.
MOLLY BLOOM: And so Tessa and Andrew, you two are siblings. So I'm wondering-- I know, Tessa, you debate in a debate team, but do you ever have debates in your family?
TESSA: Probably. I mean--
ANDREW: Yeah, all the time.
MOLLY BLOOM: What's a debate you and Tessa have?
ANDREW: What to order for dinner.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm.
TESSA: Mm.
ANDREW: Yeah.
TESSA: He always wants pizza.
ANDREW: Yeah, I always want Pizza Hut.
TESSA: He always Pizza Hut.
ANDREW: I never get it because-- I don't know why.
TESSA: Because I don't want Pizza Hut.
ANDREW: I don't know why you don't like Pizza Hut.
MOLLY BLOOM: So I'm curious, so you want pizza. And then Tessa, what do you want?
TESSA: Anything else. I mean, I--
ANDREW: See, that's the problem. She just-- for no reason.
MOLLY BLOOM: Andrew, do you ever succeed in getting pizza?
ANDREW: I do, but it's always when she's not at home.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Tessa is like, I got reasons.
ANDREW: That's the problem. She's too good of a debater, so she always wins.
MOLLY BLOOM: Will Tessa and Andrew side with Delia or Mickey? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds-- the declaration of greatness, the micro-round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judges, Tessa and Andrew, will award points to the team that impresses them the most, but they'll keep their decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. All right. Delia, Mickey, Tessa, and Andrew, are you ready?
ANDREW: Yes, ma'am.
DELIA BLOOM: Yes!
TESSA: Yes.
MICKEY BLOOM: Coming in piping hot with all I got.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
ANNOUNCER: Declaration of greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And. Delia, you're up first. Tell us why your team takes the cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Cake! Just saying the word makes you crave a bite of fluffy, creamy, sugary goodness. It's the perfect dessert and the ideal way to celebrate. Just imagine life without it. You walk into your best friend's birthday party.
[LIVELY MUSIC]
To your left, there's a hot, gooey pizza and bowls of chips. To your right, there's a table piled high with gorgeous gifts. And finally, straight ahead, you look for the one thing you've been waiting for since opening the Evite, but there is no cake. You look everywhere-- under every table, on top of every shelf. Still no cake.
You shake your best friend by the shoulders, frantically scream, where is the cake, Ishani? She says--
ISHANI: We don't have any cake. Have some fruit instead.
[SCREAMS]
DELIA BLOOM: You feel like you're falling into an endless dark pit like you'll never feel joy again. [SOBS]
Luckily, that was just a nightmare scenario. In reality, we live in a caketastic cake-filled world.
[GUITAR STRUMMING]
One reason cake is the best, it screams celebration.
MAN 1: Celebration! [GOBBLES CAKE] Hmm.
DELIA BLOOM: Wedding, cake. Birthday, there's a cake. Retiring after 42 years at your boring job, you know that's a cake. Pie is cool and all, but if you give me an apple pie for my birthday, I will not be happy. Apple is a fruit, which is basically a vegetable, which is basically salad. And I'm not trying to celebrate another year on this Earth with a salad.
MAN 1: No celebration. Yuck!
DELIA BLOOM: Another cakemazing reason why cakes are superior, anybody can make one at any time no matter what their skill level is.
Are you a beginner Baker or just short on time? Try a boxed cake mix. In the US, these mixes were created during the Depression when lots of people didn't have jobs and couldn't buy many ingredients. With these early cake mixes, you only had to add water to make a cake. Nowadays, it's estimated over 186 million Americans use them every year. Also, have you seen the pure magic of a mug cake?
CAKEDINI: For my next trick, I, the great Cakedini, will toss some simple ingredients into this ordinary mug--
AUDIENCE: Ooh.
CAKEDINI: --then place the mug in the microwave for about two minutes.
[BEEPS]
And abracakedabra, you have a cake!
[BEEPING]
[CHEERING]
DELIA BLOOM: Cakes aren't just delicious easy-to-make instant party bringers. They're also works of art. There are pastry chefs who train for years to make stunning cakes. They make flowers or fire trucks or furry friends out of frosting. They make delicate details out of spun sugar or chocolate or edible glitter. Some can even carve cakes to look exactly like any non-cake object, so much so you'll ask yourself, is it even cake?
MAN 2: Billy, have you seen my phone? Billy, no! No, no, no! Get that out of your mouth!
BILLY: It's not a phone. It's cake!
MAN 2: Oh, gosh darn, you clever cake-making Billy.
DELIA BLOOM: Sorry to say it, but pie isn't pretty. Usually, it's a sloppy hot mess that needs a scoop of ice cream to even make it somewhat attractive. So whether you're in it for the celebration, the welcoming attitude to all skill levels, or the artistry, nothing can beat cake. No matter which way you slice it, cake deserves the crown.
[FANFARE MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: A caketastic cake-abration for cake there. Andrew and Tessa, what stood out to you about Delia's declaration of greatness?
ANDREW: She really pulled me in with the argument about mug cake. I used to make those all the time during COVID. Yeah, it used to be my go-to snack. And I don't know, it's really quick and delicious.
TESSA: Yeah, I really liked how she talked about art. I really like to do art myself, so that was really fun. Also, when she mentioned hyperrealistic cakes, I've definitely seen those videos out there. They're pretty crazy.
MOLLY BLOOM: Is it cake? Yes, it is. OK. Mickey, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why cake is a mistake. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MICKEY BLOOM: OK. Where do I begin? A cake for celebration is so old and tired. That's the only way you can celebrate? Really? When I see a cake at a party, I'm like, oh, wow, they put minimum effort into this one. And pretty trite, honestly, and a little insulting. It should be a little more personal for whoever you're celebrating.
And look, I know Delia was going out of her way to say, look, cake is so simple. Look, anyone can do it. Why is that a good thing? Anyone can do it? Is that what we want in our desserts? We want something spectacular.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DELIA BLOOM: Cake is a classic for a reason. It can be any flavor. It can be made out of anything. And also, you know, Mickey, I don't want to keep cake away from the masses. I want anyone to be able to do it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Uh-huh.
MICKEY BLOOM: Ugh, typical cake.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right. Mickey, it is your turn. Please tell us why team pie can fly sky high.
MICKEY BLOOM: Look, pie is a forever thing for me. I'm ride or die for pie. In fact, I love pies so much that I decided to write an entire ode devoted to this perfect pastry.
[EMOTIONAL MUSIC]
Such crusted goodness knows no equal, a golden vision for the hungry. I keep tonight's roast chicken for I await tomorrow's sequel, leftovers baked into chicken pot pie, a quiche lorraine served hot and piping with a ham and cheese Hot Pocket nearby. You say, you mean on the side? But I won't hear your griping as I munch loudly on my sandwich pie.
I'd go on, but I've made a grave error. I've left out dessert fruit pie a la mode. Apple and pumpkin seem fairest, but banana cream's fairer. I'll drop the mic-- this fork-- an end to this pie ode.
As undoubtedly evidenced by my Pulitzer-Prize-submitted ode, pies are truly an unparalleled food. That's because unlike cake, pies are versatile. You can get them savory, sweet, and everywhere in between, from a veggie quiche for breakfast to a savory tamale hand pie for lunch, not to mention a shepherd's pie for dinner and cherry pie for dessert. Oh gosh, I better stop there, or I'll be inspired to write another ode.
Meanwhile, the options for cake are limited to dessert served on special occasions. And pies have been around longer than cakes, going back to ancient Egypt. Back then, pies were made of honey and oats or chicken.
TOUR GUIDE: And if you walk this way, you'll find the burial chamber of Egyptian pharaoh Tutankhamun, where, inscribed along the walls, you'll find ancient drawings of a tasty looking circle cut into segments. Over there, you'll see a spoon, a bowl, and an ancient Cuisinart mixer?
TOURISTS: Whoa!
MICKEY BLOOM: OK. I might have taken a few artistic liberties there, but that's not far from the truth. And pie isn't just a nourishing, delicious dish people have been eating for literally thousands of years. It's also a learning tool. Ever heard of the pie chart?
[MYSTICAL SOUND]
From generating a family budget to showing the world's favorite pie flavors by percentage to surveying people to find the best kind of pie-- as impossible as that choice would be-- the pie chart is a handy visual tool that allows you to instantly understand a given total through its specific, distinct slices. Pie isn't just a food, it's a concept.
Meanwhile, the best piece of cake is merely that, a piece of cake, which is a popular phrase to describe something easy that doesn't take much thought-- like a cake! Take it from me. I avoided cake for most of my life as a kid. I preferred the decadence of a chocolate French silk pie over a birthday cake. Even I could taste the difference, and I was five!
YOUNG MICKEY BLOOM: Pugh! Ugh, the needless sugar, it haunts me.
MICKEY BLOOM: Pie is simple and elegant. Cake is just basic.
[PLAYFUL MUSIC]
Look, I can sit here and list the merits of pi all day, but sometimes, the most persuasive argument is an example. In that sense, look no further than pizza. I assume you've heard of pizza. Its status as a pie was cemented in the early 1900s when the term pizza pie was coined by a journalist when that delicious cheesy dish was first becoming popular.
Pizza is one of the most popular foods in the world, especially in the US where people eat more than 350 slices per second! And scientists have found, it's a literal source of joy, causing your brain to release feel-good chemicals like dopamine and boost your mood. Meanwhile, cake is served at the end of the night when guests are ready to leave.
PARTY GUEST 1: Man, this party is really dragging. Can we go home?
PARTY GUEST 2: But they haven't cut the cake yet!
PARTY GUEST 1: That cake over there looks kind of dry. And what's with all that neon green frosting?
PARTY GUEST 2: Hey. There's still a couple of slices of pepperoni pizza left.
PARTY GUEST 1: Yes! Pizza! Last one there is a dried out old birthday cake.
MICKEY BLOOM: Well, there you have it. Pie brings people together. Cake sends everyone home.
[GUITAR TUNES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my, a rhyming, ravishing argument. Tessa and Andrew, what did you think about Mickey's declaration of greatness? What stood out?
TESSA: Well, I was kind of on the fence, and then he said pizza pie. And I was like, I thought that was a really good point. I do like pizza.
ANDREW: I thought you hated Pizza Hut?
TESSA: Well, Pizza Hut is different.
ANDREW: I thought he really brought it home with the fact that pie is really versatile because originally, I wasn't even considering salty and savory pies.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. Excellent points. All right. Delia, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why pie is just crusty. Leave no crumbs. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now!
DELIA BLOOM: I'll cake it from here, Mickey. I knew you were going to bring up savory pie, but you know, cake can also be savory. If you watch The Great British Bake Off, they make a Swedish sandwich cake. There's also crab cakes. There's pancakes with some melted salty butter on top. Speaking of that, how about a potato pancake? And how about-- I have a crazy question. Is lasagna a cake?
MOLLY BLOOM: [GASPS]
DELIA BLOOM: It's layers of something that you bake. And who's to say?
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DELIA BLOOM: I'm just asking questions.
MICKEY BLOOM: First off, Swedish sandwich cake sounds disgusting. I never want to eat that, and I never will. Here's what I know. I know my heart. I know my gut. And both of which, together, acknowledge that pie-- see, you don't even have to finish a sentence. It just ends on pie.
[LAUGHTER]
You don't need anything else.
DELIA BLOOM: I can do that too.
MICKEY BLOOM: Try it.
DELIA BLOOM: OK. Well, see, here's the thing, cake--
MICKEY BLOOM: OK, you got me there. OK. All right. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Point taken. Point taken.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Speaking of points, Tessa and Andrew, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award the points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Each person could get a point. Both could go to the same person. Totally subjective, totally up to you.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Mickey and Delia, how are you two feeling so far?
MICKEY BLOOM: I was feeling confident until I fell for Delia's meticulously designed trap. I'm going to be OK. I'm feeling great. Five stars, would recommend.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Delia.
DELIA BLOOM: I am feeling nervous, but I'm feeling ready to go. I'm ready to go head to head with Mickey some more. And all I have to say is, the end is nigh for pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. Very nice. All right. It's time for a quick break. Sit back and preheat the oven.
ANDREW: And we'll be right back.
TESSA: With more Smash Boom Best.
ANNOUNCER: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hello you logic-loving lovelies! It's me, all-star debate champ Taylor Lincoln, here with everyone's favorite debate duderino, Todd Douglas!
TODD DOUGLAS: Hello, friends. And boy, oh, boy, do we have a doozy of a debate to play for you today.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's right. And this one is chock full of logical fallacies.
TODD DOUGLAS: Those are bad arguments that make it easy for your opponent to poke holes in what you're saying.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And these two have fallen into the same trap. They're using the appeal to ignorance fallacy. That's when you say something must be true because there's no evidence showing otherwise. Let's take a listen.
MAXINE: Admit it, Maggie.
MAGGIE: Admit what, Maxine!
MAXINE: The cookies, they're gone!
MAGGIE: So?
MAXINE: So you stole them. You stole the cookies from the cookie jar.
MAGGIE: Who, me?
MAXINE: Yes, you.
MAGGIE: Couldn't be.
MAXINE: Then who?
MAGGIE: Well, I don't know. Maybe it was you.
MAXINE: Me? Do you have any proof I did it?
MAGGIE: No, but do you have any proof you didn't do it?
MAXINE: Well, no, but do you have any proof you didn't do it?
MAGGIE: Well, no, but do you have any proof you didn't know that you didn't do it?
MAXINE: Well, no, but do you have any proof you didn't know that I didn't know that you didn't do it?
MAGGIE: Well, no.
MAXINE AND MAGGIE: So it must be you.
[BUZZER]
TODD DOUGLAS: Wow. Not only are they all out of cookies, they're all out of logic too.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Talk about adding insult to injury.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right? Mm, chocolate chip.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Todd, did you take the cookies?
TODD DOUGLAS: What? Of course not.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You have crumbs all over your shirt.
TODD DOUGLAS: Well, that's all the time we have for today. We'll see you next time on--
TODD AND TAYLOR: State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SPEAKER 1: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on. Let's explore.
COMPUTER: It's alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. [GIGGLES] How about--
[BUZZES]
--Forever Ago, my favorite history podcast?
[BEEPING]
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
COHOST: Whoa. I was not expecting that to work or for it to sound this good.
JOY DOLO: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
SPEAKER 2: DJ Dolo!
JOY DOLO: (RAPPING) When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza.
COHOST: Ba--
[BEEPS]
COMPUTER: Zorp! Signal down. [GROANS] Stay right there, tummy togas.
[BEEPS]
Must find. Forever Ago now!
SPEAKER 1: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER 3: Best.
SPEAKER 4: Boom.
SPEAKER 5: Smash. Smash.
SPEAKER 4: Boom.
SPEAKER 3: Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
TESSA: And we're your judges, Tessa.
ANDREW: And Andrew.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this prehistoric debate idea from Ellis.
ELLIS: Hey. My name is Ellis, and I have a great debate idea-- fireflies versus dinosaurs.
ANDREW: What an illuminating idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Ellis thinks should win.
TESSA: And now it's back to our debate.
ANDREW: Cake versus pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
ANNOUNCER: Micro-round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the micro-round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Delia and Mickey, the prompt was, "Oh, Molly!" This is a surprise to me, everybody. Each debater has to tell a true story that involves me from your childhood-- oh, boy-- demonstrating how much I love your side! Oh, this is fun. OK. Delia went first last time, so Mickey, you're up. Let's hear your personal pie parable.
MICKEY BLOOM: I have so many memories of my sister Molly's love of pie that it's hard to pick one. There was the time we were on a family road trip and made a special stop-- at Molly's request-- at the Norske Nook and Osseo Wisconsin, an out-of-the-way haven for pie. There's also Molly's lifelong love of raspberry rhubarb pie, requested on birthdays and holidays. But the one moment that stands out above the rest goes back years ago to the 1990s--
[WARPING SOUNDS]
--when there were lots of kids TV shows that featured messy obstacle courses and trivia questions, often involving the contestants getting pied in the face. And at 10 years old, Molly was inspired.
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: Dad, can you please throw a pie in my face?
MOLLY'S FATHER: You want me to throw a pie in your face?
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, please. It looks so fun!
MICKEY BLOOM: Being a loving and dutiful father who loves a good bit, Dad agreed. He secured a graham cracker crust piled high with cold foamy whipped cream, met Molly in the front yard. And before anyone could yell, dairy-based topping--
[SPLATS]
--it happened. Molly's face was covered-- as was our front lawn-- and she was delighted.
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: I am invincible!
MICKEY BLOOM: A pie in the face has been a staple of comedy for over a century, going back to the earliest days of silent film. That day, Molly and Dad joined a long roster of duos trained in the sacred art of pieing, including Laurel and Hardy and Abbott and Costello.
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: Who's on first?
[SPLATS]
MOLLY'S FATHER: Bloom and Bloom have done it again.
[CHEERING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my goodness, that is a 100% true story.
MICKEY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MOLLY BLOOM: I remember it like it was yesterday. Oh my gosh. All right, Delia, now it's your turn to put the icing on top. Let's hear your cake chronicle.
DELIA BLOOM: Molly is the host of today's debate, not the judge. But if she were the judge, I know how she would vote. Molly is a cake person through and through. Who isn't? She loves to eat them. She loves to bake them. And years ago, she even inspired one.
When Molly was 10 years old, she had an assignment for school where she had to dress up as an influential person. Molly chose Albert Einstein.
ALBERT EINSTEIN: Great choice, Molly.
DELIA BLOOM: Around this time, it was also Molly's birthday. And growing up in our family, we got to choose the theme for our birthday cakes. For example, when I was seven, I got my ears pierced, so my cake was covered in frosting earrings. Tres chic. Meanwhile, my brother, Mickey, didn't want cake.
[GASPING]
So he would have birthday brownies or cookies or pie.
[BOOING]
Cut back to Molly's 10th birthday cake, it was Einstein-themed. Einstein's wild white hair and big bushy mustache were flawlessly executed in buttercream frosting. Which was the real Einstein? Cake Einstein or Molly Einstein in her costume?
ALBERT EINSTEIN: Uh, me? I am the real one, I think.
DELIA BLOOM: For years, we kept the slice with Einstein's face on it in our freezer because it was so special. We didn't keep any pies in the freezer because there's no sense in preserving something so gloppy and uninspired, I want to say. Anyway, yay, Molly! Yay, cake! Yay for Molly loving cake the best and definitely more than pie.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, that Einstein had did live in our freezer for a very-- I think it lived until our parents moved out of that house in that freezer for 15 years?
MICKEY BLOOM: Ugh, disgusting.
DELIA BLOOM: Because cake is so special.
MICKEY BLOOM: Ugh, no. No.
ANDREW: Wait. I'm a little lost. I'm a little lost. So you kept the cake in the freezer the entire time?
MOLLY BLOOM: We kept only the Einstein's face that was made of buttercream frosting in the freezer.
ANDREW: Oh, OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: We lovingly peeled off the face and kept it in the freezer for some reason. [LAUGHS] All right. Tessa and Andrew, what did you like about Delia and Mickey's micro-rounds?
TESSA: I really liked that Mickey's had a lot of different stories. There was a lot of different evidence from different parts of your childhood that was really convincing, just the breadth of stories.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Andrew, what did you like about Delia's?
ANDREW: I don't know what to think about Delia's. I think maybe--
[LAUGHTER]
--if we're keeping a cake in the freezer for that long, maybe it's because we didn't want to eat it.
MICKEY BLOOM: Oh, that's an excellent.
ANDREW: And there's no pies in the freezers.
DELIA BLOOM: It's because it was special! Molly inspired--
ANDREW: I'm just brainstorming here.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Tessa and Andrew, it is time to award a point. The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you. Did someone present some interesting story? Did they draw you in? Did they make you laugh? Did they make you think? Please award your point, but don't tell us who it's going to.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
[CHANTING]
ANNOUNCER: Sneak attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called dinglehopper. List three uses for your side other than what it's really used for. We're going to do this volley style, back and forth starting with Delia. Debaters, are you ready for your sneak attack?
MICKEY BLOOM: Yes.
DELIA BLOOM: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. We'll start with Delia. Let's hear your first unconventional use for cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Totally. So we all know how fun a ball pit is. You jump in it. You get to throw the balls around. It's a fun, soft landing. But we don't all have those little plastic balls all the time. But what if we had a pit of cake that we could jump into and just throw it around and have a nice soft place to play?
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, I love that. Sounds so fluffy and fun and tasty. OK, Mickey, it's your turn. What's an unexpected use for pie?
MICKEY BLOOM: First of all, we don't all have cake lying around, so that's not a fix, OK? And second of all, if it was me, if it was me, I would just take a pie-- which is delicious, but obviously, I've just finished it. But what do I do with the pie tin? Oh, I turn it into a Frisbee because that's how a Frisbee was invented in the first place.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. Delia?
DELIA BLOOM: Oh. After eating a dense buttery pie, I'm not going to want to jump up and play with a Frisbee.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm going to want to take a rest. And what is better than a nice fluffy angel food cake? Oh, just resting my head on it to take a little nap, I'm going straight to heaven.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] OK. Mickey, your turn.
MICKEY BLOOM: Why are all of your ideas about enveloping yourself in cake? I don't understand that.
[LAUGHTER]
DELIA BLOOM: I also have a lifelong dream of being covered in dessert, just like Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CACKLES]
MICKEY BLOOM: Fair enough. Having said that, if you didn't have slippers around, and your feet were really cold, and you had a warm, not piping hot but warm leftover pie on the windowsill, you might want to consider putting your feet inside the pie because it's warm, and it'll feel good.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Hmm. Very nice. Oh.
MICKEY BLOOM: There's nothing like enveloping your whole body in cake, OK? I'm being conservative.
DELIA BLOOM: Dream bigger, Mickey.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Delia, your final alternative use for cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Cake is so versatile. You can make a cake pop, which are delicious. The way you make those, you take some cake. You take some frosting. You mush it all around. And then you've got a ball, and that becomes a cake pop. What if you use that same concept and you use that to build a fort? It's sticky. It's strong. And it's going to house you, and it's going to protect you from the elements, and it will make a really cool fort.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Very nice. All right, Mickey, what's your final alternative use for pie?
MICKEY BLOOM: You listen to me. We're not going big. We're not going big. We're going small, OK? You could take a pie. And inside a pie is a bunch of little pies, if you had a cookie cutter or something along those lines. And every single one of those little pies could feed all of the animals of the world.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MICKEY BLOOM: You could feed squirrels.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait.
TESSA: What?
MICKEY BLOOM: Birds. Listen, hear me out, OK? Delia told me to dream bigger. And baby, this one's a goose!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Are you saying you'll make tiny pies for animals out of a pie?
MICKEY BLOOM: Yes! That's what I'm saying!
DELIA BLOOM: That's not an alternative use. That's just pie.
MICKEY BLOOM: No. Excuse me. I'm just saying, you don't have to go the opposite route of this wasteful cake dome, palace, arena thing. You could go very, very small, that even a pie, one pie, could feed thousands, OK?
TESSA: Oh.
MICKEY BLOOM: Millions, depending upon how small these little morsels are going to get.
TESSA: So he's redistributing the pie to the people?
MICKEY BLOOM: That is exactly right. Tessa understands! She always did.
ANDREW: No, she doesn't. She's [INAUDIBLE].
MICKEY BLOOM: What? That was your own brother, Tessa.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my, OK. Wow, some really creative alternate uses for pies and cakes there. But Tessa and Andrew, only one of them can get a point for this sneak attack round. Think about which side impressed you the most, and please award your fourth point.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
TESSA AND ANDREW: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh, in sync, very nice. OK. Mickey, Delia, it is time for our final round.
ANNOUNCER: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Mickey, let's hear your six words declaring pie the pinnacle of pastries.
MICKEY BLOOM: I have said my piece, Delia.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Delightful. OK. Delia, it's your turn. Give us six words summing up why cake is king.
DELIA BLOOM: Sorry, Mickey. Cake takes the cake.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MICKEY BLOOM: Oh my god, what does that even mean?
MOLLY BLOOM: Delightful again! OK. Tessa and Andrew, it is time to award a final point for this final six.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready to crown a team the Smash Boom Best?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Tessa, first, you. Drum roll, please. And Tessa's winner is--
TESSA: Pie.
[VICTORIOUS MUSIC]
MICKEY BLOOM: Yes. Oh. Thank you, Tessa. Thank you. You understand.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drum roll, please. And Andrew's winner is--
ANDREW: Cake.
[VICTORIOUS MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, a split decision!
MICKEY BLOOM: Excuse me?
TESSA: Why?
DELIA BLOOM: Wow!
MICKEY BLOOM: Andrew, wow.
DELIA BLOOM: It's an honor.
MICKEY BLOOM: That is a betrayal. That's OK.
DELIA BLOOM: Me and Andrew love cake and Pizza Hut, OK?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Well, this was a very exciting debate. We did not come to a consensus, but that's how this works. It's totally subjective. So I want to hear, Tessa, what was your favorite moment that sealed the deal for pies?
TESSA: Well, I don't know if it was a singular moment, but I really liked how Mickey was really selling it. He was really doing the most in a good way. Even if--
MICKEY BLOOM: Doing the most in a good way.
TESSA: Exactly. Even if it didn't make sense at first, he was really--
MOLLY BLOOM: [CACKLES]
TESSA: --really selling it, and I really admire that dedication. That's a big thing in debate. You just got to double down.
MOLLY BLOOM: I love that.
MICKEY BLOOM: Thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Andrew, how about you? What was the moment that decided it for cake?
ANDREW: I'm going to agree with Tessa. There were a lot of points where Mickey really didn't make a lot of sense.
[LAUGHTER]
MICKEY BLOOM: Excuse me?
DELIA BLOOM: Thank you, Andrew.
ANDREW: You got to admit, I have no idea what he was talking about during the sneak attack.
[LAUGHTER]
MICKEY BLOOM: Oh my gosh.
ANDREW: Yeah. And I also liked Delia's one-liners. I thought they were pretty clever. The thing is, I like pies better, but--
MICKEY BLOOM: You like--
ANDREW: --for the debate--
MICKEY BLOOM: Wait a minute. You like pies better, and I did such a terrible job--
ANDREW: I do, but you lost me so much.
MICKEY BLOOM: --that you chose cake over pie? Is that what you're saying?
TESSA: It's the opposite for me. I actually like-- I think, coming in, I liked cake a little bit more than pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is so interesting.
DELIA BLOOM: Mickey, it's just that you and I are so good at changing hearts and minds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. That's beautiful.
DELIA BLOOM: Mickey, I learned so much about pie that s didn't even know. I was like, what facts could there even be about pie? But I learned so much. And just like Tessa said, you gave it your all, and I just respect the heck out of that. You did a great job.
MICKEY BLOOM: There may have been many times when I too thought, that's a good one-liner. And there may have been times when I thought, well, I think she's going to win because she's presenting a very clear case, and it's very eloquently written. [SOBS]
DELIA BLOOM: Aw, thank you.
MICKEY BLOOM: You know, I didn't want to do this because I knew I was going to cry. And it happened, and now I'm crying.
[LAUGHTER]
DELIA BLOOM: Oh. It's OK. You can dry your tears with your pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Tessa and Andrew had a split decision today, but what did you think?
ANDREW: Head to smashboom.org.
TESSA: And vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez, Will [? Yark, ?] Gary O'Keefe, and Sean Campbell, with sound design by--
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: --with fact checking by--
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie Dupont.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMPERT: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios executives-in-charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Delia, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
DELIA BLOOM: Oh, yes. I would like to shout out two of my favorite people in the whole world, my siblings, Molly and Mickey, for doing this with me. [SQUEALS] And I want to thank everyone at Smash Boom Best. And I want to thank my friend Ishani Das for lending her voice to my declaration of greatness and for their help in my debate prep, our mom, Carolyn, and my fiance, Tony.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. And how about you, Mickey? Any special thanks?
MICKEY BLOOM: Yeah, special thanks to Catherine. Thank you for bearing with me while I worked on this, and you were very supportive. Thank you very much. I also want to thank Sylvie. She's my daughter. She really had no say in this at all, but I just have to thank her because she keeps me going.
And a shout-out to the PA at work that I practiced some debating with. I presented my case to pie, and she really helped me a lot. And that was Tiana Barajas. So thank you, Tiana. And Molly and Delia because I love you guys a lot. You're my rock, and I couldn't do any of this without you-- literally this time, so thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you want to give any special thanks, Tessa and Andrew, or shout-outs?
ANDREW: I'd like to shout out my mom for driving me here all the way downtown through the snow. I really appreciate that.
TESSA: Yeah. And I like to shout out my brother and my dad for shoveling so we could drive down here.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we go, let's check in and see who Ellis thinks should win the dinosaurs versus fireflies debate.
ELLIS: I think fireflies would win because only dinosaur bones are here, and the fireflies still exist.
TESSA: Smash Boom Best is a nonprofit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock down, drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And make sure to sign up for the Brains On Universe newsletter for bonus activities, reading recommendations, conversation starters, and more.
We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week, jump rope versus hula hoop. Bye-bye!
DELIA BLOOM: Baby, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
MICKEY BLOOM: Ride or pie, pie or die. Either way, this was team pie.
ANDREW: See you later, alligator.
TESSA: That was a piece of cake. Bye!
[MUSIC PLAYING] Oh, yeah , the Smash Boom Best
Oh, put it through the test
Oh, yeah, the Smash Boom Best
Oh, better than the rest
It's a Smash Boom Best
It's a Smash Boom Best
MICKEY BLOOM: Hoo. And I just wanted to say to you, if I have to admit something nice about you--
MOLLY BLOOM: Mickey!
[LAUGHTER]
DELIA BLOOM: Mickey, you just got scolded.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MICKEY BLOOM: I know. Why? What happened?
MOLLY BLOOM: I want you to be nice to Delia.
MICKEY BLOOM: OK. I am trying. I'm trying.
DELIA BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
TESSA: The show for people--
ANDREW: With big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a boisterous bake-off between two sweet treats. It's cake versus pie. We've got writer, dog enthusiast, and my sister, Delia Bloom, ready to give it her all for team cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Chocolate fudge, red velvet, tres leches, whatever the flavor, it's time to party. Let's go, cake!
MOLLY BLOOM: And writer, producer, and my brother, Mickey Bloom, is here to defend team pie.
MICKEY BLOOM: Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, ding! Pie's ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all are siblings Tessa and Andrew from Toronto, Canada. Andrew loves ice hockey and video editing, and Tessa loves debate and competitive swimming.
TESSA: Hey.
ANDREW: Hey.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Tessa, you are an avid debater. What do you think makes a solid argument?
TESSA: I would say a lot of evidence and analysis. I think being able to support your points really well is really important, like having a lot of explanation, making it really clear to the judge and the audience what you're trying to say.
ANDREW: Wow, OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Andrew is impressed. Andrew, do you have any advice for our debaters today?
ANDREW: I've honestly never debated.
MOLLY BLOOM: So maybe we should ask Tessa. What advice do you have for our debaters today?
TESSA: I think my favorite part of debates is how entertaining they are, so just have fun and keep it entertaining.
MOLLY BLOOM: And so Tessa and Andrew, you two are siblings. So I'm wondering-- I know, Tessa, you debate in a debate team, but do you ever have debates in your family?
TESSA: Probably. I mean--
ANDREW: Yeah, all the time.
MOLLY BLOOM: What's a debate you and Tessa have?
ANDREW: What to order for dinner.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm.
TESSA: Mm.
ANDREW: Yeah.
TESSA: He always wants pizza.
ANDREW: Yeah, I always want Pizza Hut.
TESSA: He always Pizza Hut.
ANDREW: I never get it because-- I don't know why.
TESSA: Because I don't want Pizza Hut.
ANDREW: I don't know why you don't like Pizza Hut.
MOLLY BLOOM: So I'm curious, so you want pizza. And then Tessa, what do you want?
TESSA: Anything else. I mean, I--
ANDREW: See, that's the problem. She just-- for no reason.
MOLLY BLOOM: Andrew, do you ever succeed in getting pizza?
ANDREW: I do, but it's always when she's not at home.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Tessa is like, I got reasons.
ANDREW: That's the problem. She's too good of a debater, so she always wins.
MOLLY BLOOM: Will Tessa and Andrew side with Delia or Mickey? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds-- the declaration of greatness, the micro-round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judges, Tessa and Andrew, will award points to the team that impresses them the most, but they'll keep their decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. All right. Delia, Mickey, Tessa, and Andrew, are you ready?
ANDREW: Yes, ma'am.
DELIA BLOOM: Yes!
TESSA: Yes.
MICKEY BLOOM: Coming in piping hot with all I got.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
ANNOUNCER: Declaration of greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And. Delia, you're up first. Tell us why your team takes the cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Cake! Just saying the word makes you crave a bite of fluffy, creamy, sugary goodness. It's the perfect dessert and the ideal way to celebrate. Just imagine life without it. You walk into your best friend's birthday party.
[LIVELY MUSIC]
To your left, there's a hot, gooey pizza and bowls of chips. To your right, there's a table piled high with gorgeous gifts. And finally, straight ahead, you look for the one thing you've been waiting for since opening the Evite, but there is no cake. You look everywhere-- under every table, on top of every shelf. Still no cake.
You shake your best friend by the shoulders, frantically scream, where is the cake, Ishani? She says--
ISHANI: We don't have any cake. Have some fruit instead.
[SCREAMS]
DELIA BLOOM: You feel like you're falling into an endless dark pit like you'll never feel joy again. [SOBS]
Luckily, that was just a nightmare scenario. In reality, we live in a caketastic cake-filled world.
[GUITAR STRUMMING]
One reason cake is the best, it screams celebration.
MAN 1: Celebration! [GOBBLES CAKE] Hmm.
DELIA BLOOM: Wedding, cake. Birthday, there's a cake. Retiring after 42 years at your boring job, you know that's a cake. Pie is cool and all, but if you give me an apple pie for my birthday, I will not be happy. Apple is a fruit, which is basically a vegetable, which is basically salad. And I'm not trying to celebrate another year on this Earth with a salad.
MAN 1: No celebration. Yuck!
DELIA BLOOM: Another cakemazing reason why cakes are superior, anybody can make one at any time no matter what their skill level is.
Are you a beginner Baker or just short on time? Try a boxed cake mix. In the US, these mixes were created during the Depression when lots of people didn't have jobs and couldn't buy many ingredients. With these early cake mixes, you only had to add water to make a cake. Nowadays, it's estimated over 186 million Americans use them every year. Also, have you seen the pure magic of a mug cake?
CAKEDINI: For my next trick, I, the great Cakedini, will toss some simple ingredients into this ordinary mug--
AUDIENCE: Ooh.
CAKEDINI: --then place the mug in the microwave for about two minutes.
[BEEPS]
And abracakedabra, you have a cake!
[BEEPING]
[CHEERING]
DELIA BLOOM: Cakes aren't just delicious easy-to-make instant party bringers. They're also works of art. There are pastry chefs who train for years to make stunning cakes. They make flowers or fire trucks or furry friends out of frosting. They make delicate details out of spun sugar or chocolate or edible glitter. Some can even carve cakes to look exactly like any non-cake object, so much so you'll ask yourself, is it even cake?
MAN 2: Billy, have you seen my phone? Billy, no! No, no, no! Get that out of your mouth!
BILLY: It's not a phone. It's cake!
MAN 2: Oh, gosh darn, you clever cake-making Billy.
DELIA BLOOM: Sorry to say it, but pie isn't pretty. Usually, it's a sloppy hot mess that needs a scoop of ice cream to even make it somewhat attractive. So whether you're in it for the celebration, the welcoming attitude to all skill levels, or the artistry, nothing can beat cake. No matter which way you slice it, cake deserves the crown.
[FANFARE MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: A caketastic cake-abration for cake there. Andrew and Tessa, what stood out to you about Delia's declaration of greatness?
ANDREW: She really pulled me in with the argument about mug cake. I used to make those all the time during COVID. Yeah, it used to be my go-to snack. And I don't know, it's really quick and delicious.
TESSA: Yeah, I really liked how she talked about art. I really like to do art myself, so that was really fun. Also, when she mentioned hyperrealistic cakes, I've definitely seen those videos out there. They're pretty crazy.
MOLLY BLOOM: Is it cake? Yes, it is. OK. Mickey, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why cake is a mistake. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MICKEY BLOOM: OK. Where do I begin? A cake for celebration is so old and tired. That's the only way you can celebrate? Really? When I see a cake at a party, I'm like, oh, wow, they put minimum effort into this one. And pretty trite, honestly, and a little insulting. It should be a little more personal for whoever you're celebrating.
And look, I know Delia was going out of her way to say, look, cake is so simple. Look, anyone can do it. Why is that a good thing? Anyone can do it? Is that what we want in our desserts? We want something spectacular.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DELIA BLOOM: Cake is a classic for a reason. It can be any flavor. It can be made out of anything. And also, you know, Mickey, I don't want to keep cake away from the masses. I want anyone to be able to do it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Uh-huh.
MICKEY BLOOM: Ugh, typical cake.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right. Mickey, it is your turn. Please tell us why team pie can fly sky high.
MICKEY BLOOM: Look, pie is a forever thing for me. I'm ride or die for pie. In fact, I love pies so much that I decided to write an entire ode devoted to this perfect pastry.
[EMOTIONAL MUSIC]
Such crusted goodness knows no equal, a golden vision for the hungry. I keep tonight's roast chicken for I await tomorrow's sequel, leftovers baked into chicken pot pie, a quiche lorraine served hot and piping with a ham and cheese Hot Pocket nearby. You say, you mean on the side? But I won't hear your griping as I munch loudly on my sandwich pie.
I'd go on, but I've made a grave error. I've left out dessert fruit pie a la mode. Apple and pumpkin seem fairest, but banana cream's fairer. I'll drop the mic-- this fork-- an end to this pie ode.
As undoubtedly evidenced by my Pulitzer-Prize-submitted ode, pies are truly an unparalleled food. That's because unlike cake, pies are versatile. You can get them savory, sweet, and everywhere in between, from a veggie quiche for breakfast to a savory tamale hand pie for lunch, not to mention a shepherd's pie for dinner and cherry pie for dessert. Oh gosh, I better stop there, or I'll be inspired to write another ode.
Meanwhile, the options for cake are limited to dessert served on special occasions. And pies have been around longer than cakes, going back to ancient Egypt. Back then, pies were made of honey and oats or chicken.
TOUR GUIDE: And if you walk this way, you'll find the burial chamber of Egyptian pharaoh Tutankhamun, where, inscribed along the walls, you'll find ancient drawings of a tasty looking circle cut into segments. Over there, you'll see a spoon, a bowl, and an ancient Cuisinart mixer?
TOURISTS: Whoa!
MICKEY BLOOM: OK. I might have taken a few artistic liberties there, but that's not far from the truth. And pie isn't just a nourishing, delicious dish people have been eating for literally thousands of years. It's also a learning tool. Ever heard of the pie chart?
[MYSTICAL SOUND]
From generating a family budget to showing the world's favorite pie flavors by percentage to surveying people to find the best kind of pie-- as impossible as that choice would be-- the pie chart is a handy visual tool that allows you to instantly understand a given total through its specific, distinct slices. Pie isn't just a food, it's a concept.
Meanwhile, the best piece of cake is merely that, a piece of cake, which is a popular phrase to describe something easy that doesn't take much thought-- like a cake! Take it from me. I avoided cake for most of my life as a kid. I preferred the decadence of a chocolate French silk pie over a birthday cake. Even I could taste the difference, and I was five!
YOUNG MICKEY BLOOM: Pugh! Ugh, the needless sugar, it haunts me.
MICKEY BLOOM: Pie is simple and elegant. Cake is just basic.
[PLAYFUL MUSIC]
Look, I can sit here and list the merits of pi all day, but sometimes, the most persuasive argument is an example. In that sense, look no further than pizza. I assume you've heard of pizza. Its status as a pie was cemented in the early 1900s when the term pizza pie was coined by a journalist when that delicious cheesy dish was first becoming popular.
Pizza is one of the most popular foods in the world, especially in the US where people eat more than 350 slices per second! And scientists have found, it's a literal source of joy, causing your brain to release feel-good chemicals like dopamine and boost your mood. Meanwhile, cake is served at the end of the night when guests are ready to leave.
PARTY GUEST 1: Man, this party is really dragging. Can we go home?
PARTY GUEST 2: But they haven't cut the cake yet!
PARTY GUEST 1: That cake over there looks kind of dry. And what's with all that neon green frosting?
PARTY GUEST 2: Hey. There's still a couple of slices of pepperoni pizza left.
PARTY GUEST 1: Yes! Pizza! Last one there is a dried out old birthday cake.
MICKEY BLOOM: Well, there you have it. Pie brings people together. Cake sends everyone home.
[GUITAR TUNES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my, a rhyming, ravishing argument. Tessa and Andrew, what did you think about Mickey's declaration of greatness? What stood out?
TESSA: Well, I was kind of on the fence, and then he said pizza pie. And I was like, I thought that was a really good point. I do like pizza.
ANDREW: I thought you hated Pizza Hut?
TESSA: Well, Pizza Hut is different.
ANDREW: I thought he really brought it home with the fact that pie is really versatile because originally, I wasn't even considering salty and savory pies.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. Excellent points. All right. Delia, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why pie is just crusty. Leave no crumbs. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now!
DELIA BLOOM: I'll cake it from here, Mickey. I knew you were going to bring up savory pie, but you know, cake can also be savory. If you watch The Great British Bake Off, they make a Swedish sandwich cake. There's also crab cakes. There's pancakes with some melted salty butter on top. Speaking of that, how about a potato pancake? And how about-- I have a crazy question. Is lasagna a cake?
MOLLY BLOOM: [GASPS]
DELIA BLOOM: It's layers of something that you bake. And who's to say?
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DELIA BLOOM: I'm just asking questions.
MICKEY BLOOM: First off, Swedish sandwich cake sounds disgusting. I never want to eat that, and I never will. Here's what I know. I know my heart. I know my gut. And both of which, together, acknowledge that pie-- see, you don't even have to finish a sentence. It just ends on pie.
[LAUGHTER]
You don't need anything else.
DELIA BLOOM: I can do that too.
MICKEY BLOOM: Try it.
DELIA BLOOM: OK. Well, see, here's the thing, cake--
MICKEY BLOOM: OK, you got me there. OK. All right. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Point taken. Point taken.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Speaking of points, Tessa and Andrew, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award the points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Each person could get a point. Both could go to the same person. Totally subjective, totally up to you.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Mickey and Delia, how are you two feeling so far?
MICKEY BLOOM: I was feeling confident until I fell for Delia's meticulously designed trap. I'm going to be OK. I'm feeling great. Five stars, would recommend.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Delia.
DELIA BLOOM: I am feeling nervous, but I'm feeling ready to go. I'm ready to go head to head with Mickey some more. And all I have to say is, the end is nigh for pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. Very nice. All right. It's time for a quick break. Sit back and preheat the oven.
ANDREW: And we'll be right back.
TESSA: With more Smash Boom Best.
ANNOUNCER: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hello you logic-loving lovelies! It's me, all-star debate champ Taylor Lincoln, here with everyone's favorite debate duderino, Todd Douglas!
TODD DOUGLAS: Hello, friends. And boy, oh, boy, do we have a doozy of a debate to play for you today.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's right. And this one is chock full of logical fallacies.
TODD DOUGLAS: Those are bad arguments that make it easy for your opponent to poke holes in what you're saying.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And these two have fallen into the same trap. They're using the appeal to ignorance fallacy. That's when you say something must be true because there's no evidence showing otherwise. Let's take a listen.
MAXINE: Admit it, Maggie.
MAGGIE: Admit what, Maxine!
MAXINE: The cookies, they're gone!
MAGGIE: So?
MAXINE: So you stole them. You stole the cookies from the cookie jar.
MAGGIE: Who, me?
MAXINE: Yes, you.
MAGGIE: Couldn't be.
MAXINE: Then who?
MAGGIE: Well, I don't know. Maybe it was you.
MAXINE: Me? Do you have any proof I did it?
MAGGIE: No, but do you have any proof you didn't do it?
MAXINE: Well, no, but do you have any proof you didn't do it?
MAGGIE: Well, no, but do you have any proof you didn't know that you didn't do it?
MAXINE: Well, no, but do you have any proof you didn't know that I didn't know that you didn't do it?
MAGGIE: Well, no.
MAXINE AND MAGGIE: So it must be you.
[BUZZER]
TODD DOUGLAS: Wow. Not only are they all out of cookies, they're all out of logic too.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Talk about adding insult to injury.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right? Mm, chocolate chip.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Todd, did you take the cookies?
TODD DOUGLAS: What? Of course not.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You have crumbs all over your shirt.
TODD DOUGLAS: Well, that's all the time we have for today. We'll see you next time on--
TODD AND TAYLOR: State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SPEAKER 1: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on. Let's explore.
COMPUTER: It's alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. [GIGGLES] How about--
[BUZZES]
--Forever Ago, my favorite history podcast?
[BEEPING]
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
COHOST: Whoa. I was not expecting that to work or for it to sound this good.
JOY DOLO: That's the DJ Dolo technique.
SPEAKER 2: DJ Dolo!
JOY DOLO: (RAPPING) When I say pizza, you say bagel. Pizza.
COHOST: Ba--
[BEEPS]
COMPUTER: Zorp! Signal down. [GROANS] Stay right there, tummy togas.
[BEEPS]
Must find. Forever Ago now!
SPEAKER 1: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER 3: Best.
SPEAKER 4: Boom.
SPEAKER 5: Smash. Smash.
SPEAKER 4: Boom.
SPEAKER 3: Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
TESSA: And we're your judges, Tessa.
ANDREW: And Andrew.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this prehistoric debate idea from Ellis.
ELLIS: Hey. My name is Ellis, and I have a great debate idea-- fireflies versus dinosaurs.
ANDREW: What an illuminating idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Ellis thinks should win.
TESSA: And now it's back to our debate.
ANDREW: Cake versus pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
ANNOUNCER: Micro-round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the micro-round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Delia and Mickey, the prompt was, "Oh, Molly!" This is a surprise to me, everybody. Each debater has to tell a true story that involves me from your childhood-- oh, boy-- demonstrating how much I love your side! Oh, this is fun. OK. Delia went first last time, so Mickey, you're up. Let's hear your personal pie parable.
MICKEY BLOOM: I have so many memories of my sister Molly's love of pie that it's hard to pick one. There was the time we were on a family road trip and made a special stop-- at Molly's request-- at the Norske Nook and Osseo Wisconsin, an out-of-the-way haven for pie. There's also Molly's lifelong love of raspberry rhubarb pie, requested on birthdays and holidays. But the one moment that stands out above the rest goes back years ago to the 1990s--
[WARPING SOUNDS]
--when there were lots of kids TV shows that featured messy obstacle courses and trivia questions, often involving the contestants getting pied in the face. And at 10 years old, Molly was inspired.
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: Dad, can you please throw a pie in my face?
MOLLY'S FATHER: You want me to throw a pie in your face?
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, please. It looks so fun!
MICKEY BLOOM: Being a loving and dutiful father who loves a good bit, Dad agreed. He secured a graham cracker crust piled high with cold foamy whipped cream, met Molly in the front yard. And before anyone could yell, dairy-based topping--
[SPLATS]
--it happened. Molly's face was covered-- as was our front lawn-- and she was delighted.
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: I am invincible!
MICKEY BLOOM: A pie in the face has been a staple of comedy for over a century, going back to the earliest days of silent film. That day, Molly and Dad joined a long roster of duos trained in the sacred art of pieing, including Laurel and Hardy and Abbott and Costello.
YOUNG MOLLY BLOOM: Who's on first?
[SPLATS]
MOLLY'S FATHER: Bloom and Bloom have done it again.
[CHEERING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my goodness, that is a 100% true story.
MICKEY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MOLLY BLOOM: I remember it like it was yesterday. Oh my gosh. All right, Delia, now it's your turn to put the icing on top. Let's hear your cake chronicle.
DELIA BLOOM: Molly is the host of today's debate, not the judge. But if she were the judge, I know how she would vote. Molly is a cake person through and through. Who isn't? She loves to eat them. She loves to bake them. And years ago, she even inspired one.
When Molly was 10 years old, she had an assignment for school where she had to dress up as an influential person. Molly chose Albert Einstein.
ALBERT EINSTEIN: Great choice, Molly.
DELIA BLOOM: Around this time, it was also Molly's birthday. And growing up in our family, we got to choose the theme for our birthday cakes. For example, when I was seven, I got my ears pierced, so my cake was covered in frosting earrings. Tres chic. Meanwhile, my brother, Mickey, didn't want cake.
[GASPING]
So he would have birthday brownies or cookies or pie.
[BOOING]
Cut back to Molly's 10th birthday cake, it was Einstein-themed. Einstein's wild white hair and big bushy mustache were flawlessly executed in buttercream frosting. Which was the real Einstein? Cake Einstein or Molly Einstein in her costume?
ALBERT EINSTEIN: Uh, me? I am the real one, I think.
DELIA BLOOM: For years, we kept the slice with Einstein's face on it in our freezer because it was so special. We didn't keep any pies in the freezer because there's no sense in preserving something so gloppy and uninspired, I want to say. Anyway, yay, Molly! Yay, cake! Yay for Molly loving cake the best and definitely more than pie.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, that Einstein had did live in our freezer for a very-- I think it lived until our parents moved out of that house in that freezer for 15 years?
MICKEY BLOOM: Ugh, disgusting.
DELIA BLOOM: Because cake is so special.
MICKEY BLOOM: Ugh, no. No.
ANDREW: Wait. I'm a little lost. I'm a little lost. So you kept the cake in the freezer the entire time?
MOLLY BLOOM: We kept only the Einstein's face that was made of buttercream frosting in the freezer.
ANDREW: Oh, OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: We lovingly peeled off the face and kept it in the freezer for some reason. [LAUGHS] All right. Tessa and Andrew, what did you like about Delia and Mickey's micro-rounds?
TESSA: I really liked that Mickey's had a lot of different stories. There was a lot of different evidence from different parts of your childhood that was really convincing, just the breadth of stories.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Andrew, what did you like about Delia's?
ANDREW: I don't know what to think about Delia's. I think maybe--
[LAUGHTER]
--if we're keeping a cake in the freezer for that long, maybe it's because we didn't want to eat it.
MICKEY BLOOM: Oh, that's an excellent.
ANDREW: And there's no pies in the freezers.
DELIA BLOOM: It's because it was special! Molly inspired--
ANDREW: I'm just brainstorming here.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Tessa and Andrew, it is time to award a point. The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you. Did someone present some interesting story? Did they draw you in? Did they make you laugh? Did they make you think? Please award your point, but don't tell us who it's going to.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
[CHANTING]
ANNOUNCER: Sneak attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called dinglehopper. List three uses for your side other than what it's really used for. We're going to do this volley style, back and forth starting with Delia. Debaters, are you ready for your sneak attack?
MICKEY BLOOM: Yes.
DELIA BLOOM: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. We'll start with Delia. Let's hear your first unconventional use for cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Totally. So we all know how fun a ball pit is. You jump in it. You get to throw the balls around. It's a fun, soft landing. But we don't all have those little plastic balls all the time. But what if we had a pit of cake that we could jump into and just throw it around and have a nice soft place to play?
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, I love that. Sounds so fluffy and fun and tasty. OK, Mickey, it's your turn. What's an unexpected use for pie?
MICKEY BLOOM: First of all, we don't all have cake lying around, so that's not a fix, OK? And second of all, if it was me, if it was me, I would just take a pie-- which is delicious, but obviously, I've just finished it. But what do I do with the pie tin? Oh, I turn it into a Frisbee because that's how a Frisbee was invented in the first place.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. Delia?
DELIA BLOOM: Oh. After eating a dense buttery pie, I'm not going to want to jump up and play with a Frisbee.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm going to want to take a rest. And what is better than a nice fluffy angel food cake? Oh, just resting my head on it to take a little nap, I'm going straight to heaven.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] OK. Mickey, your turn.
MICKEY BLOOM: Why are all of your ideas about enveloping yourself in cake? I don't understand that.
[LAUGHTER]
DELIA BLOOM: I also have a lifelong dream of being covered in dessert, just like Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CACKLES]
MICKEY BLOOM: Fair enough. Having said that, if you didn't have slippers around, and your feet were really cold, and you had a warm, not piping hot but warm leftover pie on the windowsill, you might want to consider putting your feet inside the pie because it's warm, and it'll feel good.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Hmm. Very nice. Oh.
MICKEY BLOOM: There's nothing like enveloping your whole body in cake, OK? I'm being conservative.
DELIA BLOOM: Dream bigger, Mickey.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Delia, your final alternative use for cake.
DELIA BLOOM: Cake is so versatile. You can make a cake pop, which are delicious. The way you make those, you take some cake. You take some frosting. You mush it all around. And then you've got a ball, and that becomes a cake pop. What if you use that same concept and you use that to build a fort? It's sticky. It's strong. And it's going to house you, and it's going to protect you from the elements, and it will make a really cool fort.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Very nice. All right, Mickey, what's your final alternative use for pie?
MICKEY BLOOM: You listen to me. We're not going big. We're not going big. We're going small, OK? You could take a pie. And inside a pie is a bunch of little pies, if you had a cookie cutter or something along those lines. And every single one of those little pies could feed all of the animals of the world.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MICKEY BLOOM: You could feed squirrels.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait.
TESSA: What?
MICKEY BLOOM: Birds. Listen, hear me out, OK? Delia told me to dream bigger. And baby, this one's a goose!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Are you saying you'll make tiny pies for animals out of a pie?
MICKEY BLOOM: Yes! That's what I'm saying!
DELIA BLOOM: That's not an alternative use. That's just pie.
MICKEY BLOOM: No. Excuse me. I'm just saying, you don't have to go the opposite route of this wasteful cake dome, palace, arena thing. You could go very, very small, that even a pie, one pie, could feed thousands, OK?
TESSA: Oh.
MICKEY BLOOM: Millions, depending upon how small these little morsels are going to get.
TESSA: So he's redistributing the pie to the people?
MICKEY BLOOM: That is exactly right. Tessa understands! She always did.
ANDREW: No, she doesn't. She's [INAUDIBLE].
MICKEY BLOOM: What? That was your own brother, Tessa.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my, OK. Wow, some really creative alternate uses for pies and cakes there. But Tessa and Andrew, only one of them can get a point for this sneak attack round. Think about which side impressed you the most, and please award your fourth point.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
TESSA AND ANDREW: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh, in sync, very nice. OK. Mickey, Delia, it is time for our final round.
ANNOUNCER: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Mickey, let's hear your six words declaring pie the pinnacle of pastries.
MICKEY BLOOM: I have said my piece, Delia.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Delightful. OK. Delia, it's your turn. Give us six words summing up why cake is king.
DELIA BLOOM: Sorry, Mickey. Cake takes the cake.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MICKEY BLOOM: Oh my god, what does that even mean?
MOLLY BLOOM: Delightful again! OK. Tessa and Andrew, it is time to award a final point for this final six.
[BOUNCY MUSIC]
Have you made your decision?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready to crown a team the Smash Boom Best?
ANDREW: Yep.
TESSA: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Tessa, first, you. Drum roll, please. And Tessa's winner is--
TESSA: Pie.
[VICTORIOUS MUSIC]
MICKEY BLOOM: Yes. Oh. Thank you, Tessa. Thank you. You understand.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drum roll, please. And Andrew's winner is--
ANDREW: Cake.
[VICTORIOUS MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, a split decision!
MICKEY BLOOM: Excuse me?
TESSA: Why?
DELIA BLOOM: Wow!
MICKEY BLOOM: Andrew, wow.
DELIA BLOOM: It's an honor.
MICKEY BLOOM: That is a betrayal. That's OK.
DELIA BLOOM: Me and Andrew love cake and Pizza Hut, OK?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Well, this was a very exciting debate. We did not come to a consensus, but that's how this works. It's totally subjective. So I want to hear, Tessa, what was your favorite moment that sealed the deal for pies?
TESSA: Well, I don't know if it was a singular moment, but I really liked how Mickey was really selling it. He was really doing the most in a good way. Even if--
MICKEY BLOOM: Doing the most in a good way.
TESSA: Exactly. Even if it didn't make sense at first, he was really--
MOLLY BLOOM: [CACKLES]
TESSA: --really selling it, and I really admire that dedication. That's a big thing in debate. You just got to double down.
MOLLY BLOOM: I love that.
MICKEY BLOOM: Thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Andrew, how about you? What was the moment that decided it for cake?
ANDREW: I'm going to agree with Tessa. There were a lot of points where Mickey really didn't make a lot of sense.
[LAUGHTER]
MICKEY BLOOM: Excuse me?
DELIA BLOOM: Thank you, Andrew.
ANDREW: You got to admit, I have no idea what he was talking about during the sneak attack.
[LAUGHTER]
MICKEY BLOOM: Oh my gosh.
ANDREW: Yeah. And I also liked Delia's one-liners. I thought they were pretty clever. The thing is, I like pies better, but--
MICKEY BLOOM: You like--
ANDREW: --for the debate--
MICKEY BLOOM: Wait a minute. You like pies better, and I did such a terrible job--
ANDREW: I do, but you lost me so much.
MICKEY BLOOM: --that you chose cake over pie? Is that what you're saying?
TESSA: It's the opposite for me. I actually like-- I think, coming in, I liked cake a little bit more than pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is so interesting.
DELIA BLOOM: Mickey, it's just that you and I are so good at changing hearts and minds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. That's beautiful.
DELIA BLOOM: Mickey, I learned so much about pie that s didn't even know. I was like, what facts could there even be about pie? But I learned so much. And just like Tessa said, you gave it your all, and I just respect the heck out of that. You did a great job.
MICKEY BLOOM: There may have been many times when I too thought, that's a good one-liner. And there may have been times when I thought, well, I think she's going to win because she's presenting a very clear case, and it's very eloquently written. [SOBS]
DELIA BLOOM: Aw, thank you.
MICKEY BLOOM: You know, I didn't want to do this because I knew I was going to cry. And it happened, and now I'm crying.
[LAUGHTER]
DELIA BLOOM: Oh. It's OK. You can dry your tears with your pie.
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Tessa and Andrew had a split decision today, but what did you think?
ANDREW: Head to smashboom.org.
TESSA: And vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez, Will [? Yark, ?] Gary O'Keefe, and Sean Campbell, with sound design by--
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: --with fact checking by--
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie Dupont.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMPERT: Lauren Humpert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: --and--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios executives-in-charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Delia, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
DELIA BLOOM: Oh, yes. I would like to shout out two of my favorite people in the whole world, my siblings, Molly and Mickey, for doing this with me. [SQUEALS] And I want to thank everyone at Smash Boom Best. And I want to thank my friend Ishani Das for lending her voice to my declaration of greatness and for their help in my debate prep, our mom, Carolyn, and my fiance, Tony.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. And how about you, Mickey? Any special thanks?
MICKEY BLOOM: Yeah, special thanks to Catherine. Thank you for bearing with me while I worked on this, and you were very supportive. Thank you very much. I also want to thank Sylvie. She's my daughter. She really had no say in this at all, but I just have to thank her because she keeps me going.
And a shout-out to the PA at work that I practiced some debating with. I presented my case to pie, and she really helped me a lot. And that was Tiana Barajas. So thank you, Tiana. And Molly and Delia because I love you guys a lot. You're my rock, and I couldn't do any of this without you-- literally this time, so thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you want to give any special thanks, Tessa and Andrew, or shout-outs?
ANDREW: I'd like to shout out my mom for driving me here all the way downtown through the snow. I really appreciate that.
TESSA: Yeah. And I like to shout out my brother and my dad for shoveling so we could drive down here.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we go, let's check in and see who Ellis thinks should win the dinosaurs versus fireflies debate.
ELLIS: I think fireflies would win because only dinosaur bones are here, and the fireflies still exist.
TESSA: Smash Boom Best is a nonprofit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock down, drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And make sure to sign up for the Brains On Universe newsletter for bonus activities, reading recommendations, conversation starters, and more.
We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week, jump rope versus hula hoop. Bye-bye!
DELIA BLOOM: Baby, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
MICKEY BLOOM: Ride or pie, pie or die. Either way, this was team pie.
ANDREW: See you later, alligator.
TESSA: That was a piece of cake. Bye!
[MUSIC PLAYING] Oh, yeah , the Smash Boom Best
Oh, put it through the test
Oh, yeah, the Smash Boom Best
Oh, better than the rest
It's a Smash Boom Best
It's a Smash Boom Best
MICKEY BLOOM: Hoo. And I just wanted to say to you, if I have to admit something nice about you--
MOLLY BLOOM: Mickey!
[LAUGHTER]
DELIA BLOOM: Mickey, you just got scolded.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
MICKEY BLOOM: I know. Why? What happened?
MOLLY BLOOM: I want you to be nice to Delia.
MICKEY BLOOM: OK. I am trying. I'm trying.
DELIA BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
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