Today’s debate is all pet and no peeve. We’ve got the titan of the tank vs. the rage in the cage. It’s Hamsters vs. Goldfish! We’ve got author and podcaster Nora McInerny ready to give it her all for team Hamsters and podcaster producer Marcel Malekebu is here to defend team Goldfish. Who will be crowned the Smash Boom Best? Vote below for the team YOU think won.
Also… do you have your Smarty Pass yet? Get yours today for just $5/month (or $45/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um and Forever Ago. Visit www.smartypass.org to get your Smarty Pass today. As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly!
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SPEAKER 1: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
MARLOW: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is all pet and no peeve. We've got the titan of the tank versus the rage in the cage. It's hamsters versus goldfish. We've got author and podcaster, Nora McInerney, ready to give it her all for team hamsters.
NORA MCINERNY: Look, I'm a pro, but today, this is hamateur hour.
MOLLY BLOOM: And podcast producer, Marcel Malekebu, is here to defend team goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: We all know goldfish are both the coldest and the boldest, so wait and watch these hamsters get folded.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. And here to judge it all is MARLOW from Saint Paul. MARLOW is a member of the Scouts. She has a little dog named Poppy and has worked with the Minnesota Opera. Hi, MARLOW.
MARLOW: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, MARLOW, tell me, what are the scouts?
MARLOW: Basically, the scouts are a group of people. It's like Boy Scouts.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice.
MARLOW: Yeah.
NORA MCINERNY: So you do-- you learn about nature, wilderness. What else do you learn in scouts?
MARLOW: There's rank advancement. So basically, the goal is to get to eagle requirement.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice.
MARLOW: It's like Boy Scouts, but just with a group of girls.
MOLLY BLOOM: You've listened to a lot of Smash Boom Best. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?
MARLOW: I love funny jokes, even if I don't laugh at them, but I think they're really funny. And since this is about animals, I think just everything about animals.
MOLLY BLOOM: Great. Fun facts, funny, and even if MARLOW doesn't laugh, she still thinks you're funny.
MARLOW: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Will MARLOW side with Nora or Marcel? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds-- the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge, MARLOW, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points, as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. All right, Nora, Marcel, and MARLOW, are you ready?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yes.
MARLOW: Yes, I am.
NORA MCINERNY: I'm so ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then, it's time for the--
SPEAKER: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then, they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Nora, you're up first. Tell us why hamsters are the little guys you can't deny.
NORA MCINERNY: My family is a hamster family. I don't mean that we're related to hamsters, or that my mom and dad were hamsters or anything like that. I mean, we love hamsters. We have three of them, and they are the absolute best. First, we have Bernie. Say hello, Bernie. He's got blond fur and a gentle, doofy personality.
And then there's Gus. Gus is orange, white, and brown. He loves baby carrots. And don't forget Hamster, the tiniest of the three. His name is literally Hamster, and he's the size of a golf ball, with soft gray fur and pudgy cheeks. Every night, we have a special bedtime routine that we call hammy jammy time.
My two youngest kids get in their jammies, then we tuck each hamster into a little container, filled with fluffy bedding, and we just hang out together in the living room. Hammy jammy time is when our family comes together to relax, talk about the day, and of course, play with our hamster buddies.
There's so much to love about hamsters. But let's start with the obvious. Hamsters are heart-meltingly adorable. They've got little button noses, twitchy whiskers, big cheeks, mini hands, and of course, hamster butts. Seriously, from behind, they look like tiny corgi dogs. We can't help but just say, oh, hamster butt. In the Olympics of cuteness, it wouldn't even be a competition.
ANNOUNCER: And now, the judges' final scores in the World Championship Cuteness Competition-- kitten playing with a ball of yarn, 7.5 out of 10, goldfish floating in a bowl, 2 out of 10-- ouch. oh, that's gotta hurt-- and finally, the Teddy bear hamster, wearing a little cowboy hat. It's a perfect score, 10 out of 10.
NORA MCINERNY: Plus, with dozens of wild hamster species out there, there are unlimited possibilities for cuteness. Take the Tibetan dwarf hamster. It lives high in the mountains of Nepal and Tibet and stands only 2 inches tall, or the European hamster, which has reddish fur and the tiniest pink nose.
But hamsters aren't just make your heart explode out of your chest cute. They're also smart. You can teach a hamster to do lots of tricks-- sit, play, fetch, or come when you call their names. Plus, hamsters have amazing spatial memory, meaning they use landmarks and other cues to remember where things are.
In the wild, hamsters collect seeds and other food in their cheek pouches, and then they hide it in different spots for later. So remembering where they left things is really important.
HAMSTER: Let's see. Take a left at the pile of rocks, right by the tuft of grass, three steps from the pine tree, and there it is, my secret seed stash. Wait. Where are my seeds? Hank, have you seen them?
HANK: What seeds? I didn't see any seeds.
NORA MCINERNY: Goldfish are just for looking at, not hamsters. You can play with them, cuddle them, carry them around in the front pocket of your overalls, even make miniature meals for them. My kids and I make veggie sushi for our hammies. Have you ever watched a hamster eat something with its tiny hands?
It's the cutest thing ever. Both my kids are really into their hammy pals, especially my youngest son. He calls himself their hamster dad. I love seeing how responsible and caring he's learned to be, thanks to them. The other night we peeked into their cage to say hi to our hammies while they were napping.
Oh, he's already awake.
KID: He's awake.
NORA MCINERNY: He's awake.
KID: Come on, Gus-Gus.
NORA MCINERNY: Hi, Gussy. He made his little nest in the corner.
KID: I love him.
NORA MCINERNY: You love him? Why do you love hamsters?
KID: Because they're so tiny and cute and sweet.
NORA MCINERNY: And they're smart, I think.
KID: And they're also really creative and curious.
NORA MCINERNY: Hamsters are the full package. They're unbelievably cute, smart creatures, but they're also our pals, ones we can cuddle when we've had a hard day. So if you'll excuse me, I need to go put my PJs back on because it's hammy jammy time.
[LAUGHS ]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, I will be angling for an invitation to hammy jammy time.
NORA MCINERNY: I forgot to sing the theme song for hammy jammy time.
MOLLY BLOOM: May I hear it, please?
NORA MCINERNY: Yes, I thought you would never ask. It's put on your jammies. Go grab the hammies. It's hammy jammy time.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, I want to be invited so bad now. I have really cute pajamas, Nora. I can come, and we can snuggle.
NORA MCINERNY: You come over. You just gotta-- it is a bring your own hamster situation.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, OK, OK, OK.
NORA MCINERNY: We only have three.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
NORA MCINERNY: We don't have enough for guest.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fair, fair. MARLOW, what stood out to you about Nora's Declaration of Greatness?
MARLOW: Well, I love that you brought your kids, your children into that. I love hearing their voices and hearing their input. I think that I really liked it. I love hammy jammy time. That sounds so fun. Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent.
NORA MCINERNY: I think you should get a hamster on your way home.
MARLOW: OK, I'll take it up with my mom.
NORA MCINERNY: I think you should.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Marcel, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why hamsters are all fluff and no substance. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Well, number one, hamsters are all fluff with no substance because cuteness doesn't have any depth, OK? Goldfish are beautiful, not cute. Does Miss Universe win a competition for cuteness? No, it's beauty, inside and out, within the mind.
And also, if they're so smart, then why do you call someone who runs around aimlessly caught in a hamster wheel? It doesn't make any sense to me. So also, hammy jammy time sounds cute, but also terrifying.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm dying to know why it's terrifying.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Because they scurry, OK? A goldfish can't scurry. If they get out, what happens? If they get out of the cage, the little enclosure, what happens? Everybody's afraid. They run outside. They start eating your Frito chips in the pantry.
MOLLY BLOOM: Of course.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: All of which goldfish would and could never do.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nora, anything you'd like to say in return?
NORA MCINERNY: I think that was a lot of slander. I don't know anyone who's been frightened by a hamster. And when I hear somebody's been on a hamster wheel, I think that's a person with incredible cardiovascular endurance. That's a person who simply loves to exercise, and that's good for you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Beautiful. All right, Marcel, it is your turn. Tell us why we should wish for a goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: In my house, we love goldfish so much, that I decided to write a song about them. And then I sang that song with my daughters.
KIDS: Goldfish. Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: The dopest fish in the fish tank. Goldfish.
KIDS: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: How far you come from the riverbank? Goldfish.
KIDS: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Scale so bright and shiny. Goldfish. I like you. Do you like me? Goldfish. Goldfish.
KIDS: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I don't think there's a single person in the world who has met a goldfish they don't like. The shiny orange scales, the cute little puckered mouth, the large, mesmerizing black pupils. They're just beautiful. Over 1,000 years ago in China, people were eating this kind of fish called a carp. Most of these carp were gray or green, but every once in a while, they came across a rare carp that was red or yellow.
MAN 1: Hey, man, take a look at this carp. I've never seen this color before.
MAN 2: Whoa, it's absolutely breathtaking.
MAN 1: Dude, do you think we should take it home?
MAN 2: Yes, and we shall name it Gilbert.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: When the fishermen came across these beautiful carp, they would release them into Buddhist ponds to save them. Over time, they morphed into a whole new species, the goldfish. Pretty deep stuff for such shallow waters. Nowadays, we see goldfish all over, and for good reason.
I want you to imagine being at your doctor's office. It's flu season, so there are people everywhere. It's so overwhelming. You're feeling like a fish out of water. And then in the corner, what do you see? A fish in water, a giant tank with goldfish galore. They're so calming, so soothing.
In fact, according to some scientific studies, interacting with fish can help people regulate anxiety and fear, lower their blood pressure, and help reduce stress. Now, I want you to imagine the same doctor's office with a cage of hamsters in it.
[SNEEZES]
Ugh. The smell alone would give you nausea. The scurrying, the scratching, the frantic, fearful aura radiating from the rattling of the cage, haunting your ears, eating away at your soul. And hamster cages are also a hassle to clean. Have you ever watched someone clean a hamster cage?
Sorry, Harriet. It's time to clean your cage again. I know, I don't like it either. Here, let me use the poop scooper. Dagnabbit! I done dropped your droppings all over the floor. [SNEEZES] My allergies are getting to me, Harriett. Quick, call the doctor's office with the lovely fish tank.
Now, have you heard of anyone being allergic to a goldfish? No. In fact, cleaning a fish tank is like an ASMR scrubbing of the soul. I take a bucket, a pump, a squeegee, and peacefully wipe away the algae and scum. And my daughters love to help me clean it, too.
And you know what never happens? No one ever sneezes or smells poo during the tank cleaning. Our goldfish tank is in my daughter's room. Every night before bed, we have a ritual where we say good night to our goldfish, Sasuke.
Do you guys want to say goodnight to Sasuke?
KIDS: Good night.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Good night, Sasuke.
It's the perfect way to end the day. Goldfish, they're pretty. They calm us. They are our tiny glittery guides to a healthier, cleaner, more tranquil world, in and out of the water.
MOLLY BLOOM: A very calming and convincing argument there for a goldfish. MARLOW, what stood out to you about Marcel's Declaration of Greatness?
MARLOW: OK, well, I know that both of you have children now, and I loved their voices. I loved that you have a ritual just like hamsters, but you have a song that's like groovy and jammy, and I just love that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very nice. All right, Nora, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why goldfish are silly swimmers and not debate winners. You've got 30 seconds.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Tell us, Nora.
MOLLY BLOOM: And your time starts now.
NORA MCINERNY: There's a lot of misinformation in that, but I would like to say that hamster cages do not stink. That is a fallacy. You use enough wood chips, they smell great. It's fine. They can also go in a little potty, which they do. And then there is no smell. And another thing. Are you talking about carp? Let me tell you about this carp.
They're an invasive species. A lot of people think they're just so cute. Oh, we can just release them. Guess what? They can wreck entire ecosystems, so you think you've got a peaceful pet? Some people, they flush them down the toilet. What ends up then, the Great Lakes? They're not so great anymore, OK?
MOLLY BLOOM: Time. Marcel, you'd like to say in response?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I don't know, I mean, invasive species sounds pretty xenophobic there, Nora. I personally like to welcome the goldfish into our communities in Lake of the Isles. I love to see them. I love-- I love all the different iterations of fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Beautiful All right, MARLOW, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the Declaration of Greatness you liked best, and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Award your points, but don't tell us who is getting them.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
MARLOW: I think I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, wonderful. Marcel and Nora, how are you two feeling so far?
NORA MCINERNY: I'm sweating. I'm sweating. This is a high pressure situation, and I'm not thriving. I'm not doing well, Molly. Thank you for checking.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm so sorry.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm as smooth as a fish right now. I don't know if that's a saying, but I'm going to-- I'm going to make that.
NORA MCINERNY: I am-- emotionally, I am on the hamster wheel.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Well, it's time for a quick break. Check your cages and clean your tanks.
MARLOW: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
SPEAKER 2: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hey, debate heads, Todd Douglas here with my pal, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: What's new, my argument amigo.
TODD DOUGLAS: What's new is I just saw a big time logical fallacy at the baseball field.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, a logical fallacy is a debate mistake that makes an argument super easy to defeat.
TODD DOUGLAS: That's right. And the fallacy I saw was the slippery slope fallacy. That's when you say a small action will result in a big, Earth-shattering outcome. It's an exaggeration to the max.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ooh, let's grab some peanuts and Cracker Jacks and watch this debate no-no.
COACH: Listen, Andrew, you're up to bat next, and I need you to hit a home run.
ANDREW: I'll try my best, coach.
COACH: You better. Because if you don't, then we won't score. And if we don't score, then we'll lose. And if we lose, I'll be out of a job. And if I'm out of a job, then I'll have to work at the zoo. And if I work at the zoo, the prairie dogs there will straight up eat me alive.
ANDREW: That seems like an overreaction.
TODD DOUGLAS: Whoa, that got real intense real fast.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Whew, it certainly did. He made it sound like not hitting a home run in the game would result in prairie dogs eating him alive.
TODD DOUGLAS: Prairie dogs are our friends and definitely don't eat baseball coaches. But more importantly, that's a whopper of a logical fallacy. It's totally absurd to think that missing one point is the difference between life and death.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: I'll say. All this baseball talk is making me thirsty.
TODD DOUGLAS: I think it's all the peanuts and Cracker Jacks you've been eating. We're off to get some lemonade. Catch you next time on State of Debate.
SPEAKER 3: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
ALIEN: Its alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. How about Brains On, my favorite science podcast.
SPEAKER 4: So this is Marc's nose?
MOLLY BLOOM: It's not actually as hairy as I would have thought.
SPEAKER 4: Whoa, check out that big crowd of boogers.
MOLLY BLOOM: And they're cheering for something?
BOOGER 1: Loogies and gentle phlegm, boogs and germs, gather 'round. Today, we--
BOOGER 2: Zorp. Signal down. Stay right there, tummy togas. Must find Brains On now.
SPEAKER 3: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER 5: Best.
SPEAKER 6: Smash. Smash. Boom.
SPEAKER 7: Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
MARLOW: And I'm your judge, MARLOW.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this festive debate idea from Tycho.
TYCHO: Hi, I'm Tycho, and I'm from Denver, Colorado. And I think there should be a debate about birthdays versus Christmas.
MARLOW: Now, that's a debate with a lot of presents.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Tycho thinks should win.
MARLOW: And now, it's back to our debate, hamsters versus goldfish.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
SPEAKER 1: Micro Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the Micro Round, each team has prepared a creative response to a challenge we gave them before the debate. Today, it's Dear Diary. Each side will read us a diary entry from either a hamster or a goldfish, respectively. Nora went first last time, so Marcel, you are up. Take us to the tank with your journal entry.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Dear Diary, it's me, Sasuke, the goldfish. I had a nightmare last night. I was on land, and instead of being a goldfish, I had to be a hamster. It was so bad. It was so dry out there. I had to find water to drink just to stay hydrated. Boo.
And man, the gravity was so strong, it just dragged me down the whole time. And I didn't even have my beautiful golden fins. I had these grubby little hands and feet. How does anyone move with those? I had to push my feet against the ground, just to get anywhere.
The agony. Absolutely terrible. My tank is usually so quiet and serene. But out on the land, there were all these sounds, honking and yelling, and people with their fancy Bluetooth speakers. How do you get any sleep up there? I was afraid. I was on edge the whole time.
I'm so glad to be back in the water, where everything is calm, where my snail friends clean the algae off my tank walls, where the pump makes a dull, warm, inviting hum all day, as I peruse the substrate for delectable delights. And I'm so grateful for this little piece of aquatic heaven, and I'll never take that for granted again. They say goldfish have short memories, but we don't. And I'll be remembering that horrible dream for a long time.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, Sasuke, so great to hear from him. All right, Nora, now it's your turn. Show us the inner thoughts of your furry friend.
NORA MCINERNY: Dear Diary, the start of the new year has me reflecting on my recent adventures with my family. Those humans might be gargantuan and have an alarming lack of fur, but I love them. And I love exploring their strangely large world. For instance, I took a road trip around the house in my car.
It's eco-friendly. I just get in a little plastic ball and run. In the kitchen, I saw wonders I never thought possible-- a huge box, packed with food. I suppose my family hides their food and stashes, like I do. People, they're just like hamsters. But my favorite trip last year was when dad tucked me into his shirt pocket.
I must have been 40 inches up in the air. I almost threw up. We went all the way to the living room. Dad stood in front of a magical portal, where I saw his face and another hamster sitting in his pocket. Every time I moved, the other hamster moved. I wanted to jump out of that pocket and fight for my territory, but instead, I hid in the pocket and ate some sunflower seeds.
And when I stuck my head back out, we were outside, like out of the house. And I saw the big sky light. I think it's called the sun. It was low and orange, and the sky was pink and purple. The clouds looked like cotton candy. The trees, well, they looked like trees. What a year. That's all for now. XOXO, Bernie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, a big day for little Bernie. OK, MARLOW, what did you like about and Marcel's Micro Rounds?
MARLOW: I loved everything, I think that imagery stood out to me in both arguments, but specifically, for goldfish, like their scales and lakes and ponds and even the-- everything. I loved it.
MOLLY BLOOM: And what stood out for you about the hamsters?
MARLOW: The hamsters, the vacation you took in the car.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, MARLOW, these are both excellent, but only one of them can get a point. So please award a point to the Micro Round that you liked best. Totally up to you. Did someone really transport you into the mind of their little furry or scaly friend? Have you made your decision?
MARLOW: You got it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then, it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
SPEAKER 1: Sneak Attack!
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round, where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called sentence by sentence. This challenge requires a little teamwork. Nora and Marcel, we want you to build a story together, and it has to involve both of your sides.
You'll each get three sentences to build this story from the ground up, and you'll go back and forth, sentence by sentence, until the story is done. Does that make sense, Marcel and Nora?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yes.
NORA MCINERNY: Yeah. Yeah, I think we can do this.
MOLLY BLOOM: Teamwork makes the dream work. OK, Marcel went first last time, so Nora, you get to start. Please give us the first opening sentence of this fabulous tale.
NORA MCINERNY: Once upon a time, in a pet store, a little kid was looking for the perfect pet; and they definitely did not want a fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice. Very good. All right, Marcel, let's hear your second sentence.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: At least, not just any kind of fish, but a goldfish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Exclamation point.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Exclamation point.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, next sentence.
NORA MCINERNY: However, once they got to the goldfish aisle, they realized-- they realized that fish are wet, and who wants a wet pet?
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Marcel.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: This child wants the goldfish, because it's dazzling and gorgeous. And-- I don't know how many ands I can put--
MOLLY BLOOM: As many as you want.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: --the only pet in the world for this child.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. All right, Nora, it's your last sentence. Make it count.
NORA MCINERNY: Except in the other aisle, there is something cuter, something more charming, something more undeniably appealing in literally every single way: a beautiful, gorgeous, gentle, inexpensive hamster.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Marcel, your last sentence.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: It's just too bad that, that hamster was only the favorite of the child's parent.
MOLLY BLOOM: The end.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: The end.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, what a story. We really packed in a lot.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: There was a lot that went on in that story. It wasn't just a bunch of commas and semicolons and--
MOLLY BLOOM: I personally learned a lot about punctuation. I'm sure our listeners did as well.
MARLOW: I sure did.
MOLLY BLOOM: MARLOW, please think about which side impressed you the most for this Sneak Attack story, and award your fourth point. The criteria are totally up to you. Have you made your decision? I think I have.
[BELL DINGS]
All right, It's time for our final round.
SPEAKER 1: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Marcel, let's hear your six words for goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Gold, beautiful, bright, day and night.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, lovely. All right, Nora, it is your turn. Give us six words for hamsters.
NORA MCINERNY: Tiny hands, big cheeks can't lose.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. I love it. All right, MARLOW, it is time to award a final point for this Final Six.
MARLOW: I have awarded my point.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Great. And you tallied them up?
MARLOW: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: You ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
MARLOW: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, drum roll, please. And the winner is--
MARLOW: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Wooh. Three times. Three times.
NORA MCINERNY: Why, MARLOW?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Three times.
NORA MCINERNY: Why?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yeah, I'm swimming in all my glory right now I can. I don't hear anything coming from the other line. And Nora, if you're just taking a break, that's OK. I just want to let you know, I support you. Bernie, Gus, and I forget the last one's name. I think it is just Hamster, which is very, very creative and clever of you.
NORA MCINERNY: Was it-- was it a close debate?
MARLOW: Um.
NORA MCINERNY: MARLOW, was it close? MARLOW, was it close?
MARLOW: Those commas really hit me. Those punctuation that really-- you were not-- you guys were not acting as a team on that thing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hard to turn competitors into teammates. That is a tough.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Nora, I really appreciated the voice you used in your Micro Round. That was the different voice that I hadn't heard come from you before, and it made me think that you have-- I feel like you should be somewhere in the voice field, as a profession, like you should use your voice, and then--
NORA MCINERNY: I accept.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: And so that was very cool. And the imagery was so vivid, and the word cute does stand out to me with hamsters now because of Nora. So thank you-- thank you for making me think they're not just a rat that's rebranded itself.
NORA MCINERNY: Here's what I have to say to Marcel Malekebu. There's nobody on Earth that I would rather lose anything to. There is no worthier opponent than Marcel with a guitar and two adorable children singing along with him. It a little bit of a dirty move? Yeah, and that's what I respect about it, OK?
And you made-- you made goldfish seem like a zen exercise and not just a smelly bowl of water. So that was really good. You did a really good job. You are a very worthy opponent, and it's always an honor to lose to you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that is it for today's debate battle. MARLOW crowned goldfish the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
MARLOW: Head to smashboom.org, and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez, with sound design by--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: The fact-checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA WRIGHT: Joshua Wright.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives-in-charge are Chandra Kavati and Joann Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Nora, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
NORA MCINERNY: Kids, this isn't over. Go to smashboom.org, vote for hamsters. This was rigged. Don't let this stand. Don't give up. OK, I need everyone behind this. It's not over. Don't give up, smashboom.org. Vote for hamsters. Shout out to Jack and Lucy Gilmore, my niece and nephew. I'm so sorry that I lost, yet again. And to my little kids, Ralph and Cue, thanks for all the hammy jammy times.
MOLLY BLOOM: And how about you, Marcel, any special shout outs?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm just going to give a shout out to Amani and Nia. Thank you guys. We are now two for two with Nora, and we are three for three as a Malekebu family, so I just want to put that out there. Thank you for helping me be a member of the winning team.
MOLLY BLOOM: And MARLOW, any special thanks or shout outs?
MARLOW: Yes, I would like to thank all my friends and my family, especially my parents, for driving me here and everything. Yeah, thank you for having me as well.
MOLLY BLOOM: Thank you for being here. Before we go, let's check in and see who Tycho thinks should win the birthdays versus Christmas debate.
TYCHO: I think birthdays should win because they are fun and they're more activities than Christmas.
MARLOW: Smash Boom Best is a non-profit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18, and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age, and you have an idea for a knock down drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pass for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all four shows in the Brains On Universe. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week-- cake versus pie.
NORA MCINERNY: See ya.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Peace.
NORA MCINERNY: Bye bye. Smell ya later.
SPEAKER: Oh, you have a Smash Boom Best. Oh, put you through the test. Oh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Oh, better than the rest. it's Smash Boom Best. It's Smash Boom Best.
NORA MCINERNY: This is when you discover I'm not a creative person. This one, you discover I should have an accountant.
MARLOW: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is all pet and no peeve. We've got the titan of the tank versus the rage in the cage. It's hamsters versus goldfish. We've got author and podcaster, Nora McInerney, ready to give it her all for team hamsters.
NORA MCINERNY: Look, I'm a pro, but today, this is hamateur hour.
MOLLY BLOOM: And podcast producer, Marcel Malekebu, is here to defend team goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: We all know goldfish are both the coldest and the boldest, so wait and watch these hamsters get folded.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. And here to judge it all is MARLOW from Saint Paul. MARLOW is a member of the Scouts. She has a little dog named Poppy and has worked with the Minnesota Opera. Hi, MARLOW.
MARLOW: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, MARLOW, tell me, what are the scouts?
MARLOW: Basically, the scouts are a group of people. It's like Boy Scouts.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice.
MARLOW: Yeah.
NORA MCINERNY: So you do-- you learn about nature, wilderness. What else do you learn in scouts?
MARLOW: There's rank advancement. So basically, the goal is to get to eagle requirement.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice.
MARLOW: It's like Boy Scouts, but just with a group of girls.
MOLLY BLOOM: You've listened to a lot of Smash Boom Best. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?
MARLOW: I love funny jokes, even if I don't laugh at them, but I think they're really funny. And since this is about animals, I think just everything about animals.
MOLLY BLOOM: Great. Fun facts, funny, and even if MARLOW doesn't laugh, she still thinks you're funny.
MARLOW: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Will MARLOW side with Nora or Marcel? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds-- the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge, MARLOW, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points, as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. All right, Nora, Marcel, and MARLOW, are you ready?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yes.
MARLOW: Yes, I am.
NORA MCINERNY: I'm so ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then, it's time for the--
SPEAKER: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then, they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Nora, you're up first. Tell us why hamsters are the little guys you can't deny.
NORA MCINERNY: My family is a hamster family. I don't mean that we're related to hamsters, or that my mom and dad were hamsters or anything like that. I mean, we love hamsters. We have three of them, and they are the absolute best. First, we have Bernie. Say hello, Bernie. He's got blond fur and a gentle, doofy personality.
And then there's Gus. Gus is orange, white, and brown. He loves baby carrots. And don't forget Hamster, the tiniest of the three. His name is literally Hamster, and he's the size of a golf ball, with soft gray fur and pudgy cheeks. Every night, we have a special bedtime routine that we call hammy jammy time.
My two youngest kids get in their jammies, then we tuck each hamster into a little container, filled with fluffy bedding, and we just hang out together in the living room. Hammy jammy time is when our family comes together to relax, talk about the day, and of course, play with our hamster buddies.
There's so much to love about hamsters. But let's start with the obvious. Hamsters are heart-meltingly adorable. They've got little button noses, twitchy whiskers, big cheeks, mini hands, and of course, hamster butts. Seriously, from behind, they look like tiny corgi dogs. We can't help but just say, oh, hamster butt. In the Olympics of cuteness, it wouldn't even be a competition.
ANNOUNCER: And now, the judges' final scores in the World Championship Cuteness Competition-- kitten playing with a ball of yarn, 7.5 out of 10, goldfish floating in a bowl, 2 out of 10-- ouch. oh, that's gotta hurt-- and finally, the Teddy bear hamster, wearing a little cowboy hat. It's a perfect score, 10 out of 10.
NORA MCINERNY: Plus, with dozens of wild hamster species out there, there are unlimited possibilities for cuteness. Take the Tibetan dwarf hamster. It lives high in the mountains of Nepal and Tibet and stands only 2 inches tall, or the European hamster, which has reddish fur and the tiniest pink nose.
But hamsters aren't just make your heart explode out of your chest cute. They're also smart. You can teach a hamster to do lots of tricks-- sit, play, fetch, or come when you call their names. Plus, hamsters have amazing spatial memory, meaning they use landmarks and other cues to remember where things are.
In the wild, hamsters collect seeds and other food in their cheek pouches, and then they hide it in different spots for later. So remembering where they left things is really important.
HAMSTER: Let's see. Take a left at the pile of rocks, right by the tuft of grass, three steps from the pine tree, and there it is, my secret seed stash. Wait. Where are my seeds? Hank, have you seen them?
HANK: What seeds? I didn't see any seeds.
NORA MCINERNY: Goldfish are just for looking at, not hamsters. You can play with them, cuddle them, carry them around in the front pocket of your overalls, even make miniature meals for them. My kids and I make veggie sushi for our hammies. Have you ever watched a hamster eat something with its tiny hands?
It's the cutest thing ever. Both my kids are really into their hammy pals, especially my youngest son. He calls himself their hamster dad. I love seeing how responsible and caring he's learned to be, thanks to them. The other night we peeked into their cage to say hi to our hammies while they were napping.
Oh, he's already awake.
KID: He's awake.
NORA MCINERNY: He's awake.
KID: Come on, Gus-Gus.
NORA MCINERNY: Hi, Gussy. He made his little nest in the corner.
KID: I love him.
NORA MCINERNY: You love him? Why do you love hamsters?
KID: Because they're so tiny and cute and sweet.
NORA MCINERNY: And they're smart, I think.
KID: And they're also really creative and curious.
NORA MCINERNY: Hamsters are the full package. They're unbelievably cute, smart creatures, but they're also our pals, ones we can cuddle when we've had a hard day. So if you'll excuse me, I need to go put my PJs back on because it's hammy jammy time.
[LAUGHS ]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, I will be angling for an invitation to hammy jammy time.
NORA MCINERNY: I forgot to sing the theme song for hammy jammy time.
MOLLY BLOOM: May I hear it, please?
NORA MCINERNY: Yes, I thought you would never ask. It's put on your jammies. Go grab the hammies. It's hammy jammy time.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, I want to be invited so bad now. I have really cute pajamas, Nora. I can come, and we can snuggle.
NORA MCINERNY: You come over. You just gotta-- it is a bring your own hamster situation.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, OK, OK, OK.
NORA MCINERNY: We only have three.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
NORA MCINERNY: We don't have enough for guest.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fair, fair. MARLOW, what stood out to you about Nora's Declaration of Greatness?
MARLOW: Well, I love that you brought your kids, your children into that. I love hearing their voices and hearing their input. I think that I really liked it. I love hammy jammy time. That sounds so fun. Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent.
NORA MCINERNY: I think you should get a hamster on your way home.
MARLOW: OK, I'll take it up with my mom.
NORA MCINERNY: I think you should.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Marcel, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why hamsters are all fluff and no substance. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Well, number one, hamsters are all fluff with no substance because cuteness doesn't have any depth, OK? Goldfish are beautiful, not cute. Does Miss Universe win a competition for cuteness? No, it's beauty, inside and out, within the mind.
And also, if they're so smart, then why do you call someone who runs around aimlessly caught in a hamster wheel? It doesn't make any sense to me. So also, hammy jammy time sounds cute, but also terrifying.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm dying to know why it's terrifying.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Because they scurry, OK? A goldfish can't scurry. If they get out, what happens? If they get out of the cage, the little enclosure, what happens? Everybody's afraid. They run outside. They start eating your Frito chips in the pantry.
MOLLY BLOOM: Of course.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: All of which goldfish would and could never do.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nora, anything you'd like to say in return?
NORA MCINERNY: I think that was a lot of slander. I don't know anyone who's been frightened by a hamster. And when I hear somebody's been on a hamster wheel, I think that's a person with incredible cardiovascular endurance. That's a person who simply loves to exercise, and that's good for you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Beautiful. All right, Marcel, it is your turn. Tell us why we should wish for a goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: In my house, we love goldfish so much, that I decided to write a song about them. And then I sang that song with my daughters.
KIDS: Goldfish. Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: The dopest fish in the fish tank. Goldfish.
KIDS: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: How far you come from the riverbank? Goldfish.
KIDS: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Scale so bright and shiny. Goldfish. I like you. Do you like me? Goldfish. Goldfish.
KIDS: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I don't think there's a single person in the world who has met a goldfish they don't like. The shiny orange scales, the cute little puckered mouth, the large, mesmerizing black pupils. They're just beautiful. Over 1,000 years ago in China, people were eating this kind of fish called a carp. Most of these carp were gray or green, but every once in a while, they came across a rare carp that was red or yellow.
MAN 1: Hey, man, take a look at this carp. I've never seen this color before.
MAN 2: Whoa, it's absolutely breathtaking.
MAN 1: Dude, do you think we should take it home?
MAN 2: Yes, and we shall name it Gilbert.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: When the fishermen came across these beautiful carp, they would release them into Buddhist ponds to save them. Over time, they morphed into a whole new species, the goldfish. Pretty deep stuff for such shallow waters. Nowadays, we see goldfish all over, and for good reason.
I want you to imagine being at your doctor's office. It's flu season, so there are people everywhere. It's so overwhelming. You're feeling like a fish out of water. And then in the corner, what do you see? A fish in water, a giant tank with goldfish galore. They're so calming, so soothing.
In fact, according to some scientific studies, interacting with fish can help people regulate anxiety and fear, lower their blood pressure, and help reduce stress. Now, I want you to imagine the same doctor's office with a cage of hamsters in it.
[SNEEZES]
Ugh. The smell alone would give you nausea. The scurrying, the scratching, the frantic, fearful aura radiating from the rattling of the cage, haunting your ears, eating away at your soul. And hamster cages are also a hassle to clean. Have you ever watched someone clean a hamster cage?
Sorry, Harriet. It's time to clean your cage again. I know, I don't like it either. Here, let me use the poop scooper. Dagnabbit! I done dropped your droppings all over the floor. [SNEEZES] My allergies are getting to me, Harriett. Quick, call the doctor's office with the lovely fish tank.
Now, have you heard of anyone being allergic to a goldfish? No. In fact, cleaning a fish tank is like an ASMR scrubbing of the soul. I take a bucket, a pump, a squeegee, and peacefully wipe away the algae and scum. And my daughters love to help me clean it, too.
And you know what never happens? No one ever sneezes or smells poo during the tank cleaning. Our goldfish tank is in my daughter's room. Every night before bed, we have a ritual where we say good night to our goldfish, Sasuke.
Do you guys want to say goodnight to Sasuke?
KIDS: Good night.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Good night, Sasuke.
It's the perfect way to end the day. Goldfish, they're pretty. They calm us. They are our tiny glittery guides to a healthier, cleaner, more tranquil world, in and out of the water.
MOLLY BLOOM: A very calming and convincing argument there for a goldfish. MARLOW, what stood out to you about Marcel's Declaration of Greatness?
MARLOW: OK, well, I know that both of you have children now, and I loved their voices. I loved that you have a ritual just like hamsters, but you have a song that's like groovy and jammy, and I just love that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very nice. All right, Nora, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why goldfish are silly swimmers and not debate winners. You've got 30 seconds.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Tell us, Nora.
MOLLY BLOOM: And your time starts now.
NORA MCINERNY: There's a lot of misinformation in that, but I would like to say that hamster cages do not stink. That is a fallacy. You use enough wood chips, they smell great. It's fine. They can also go in a little potty, which they do. And then there is no smell. And another thing. Are you talking about carp? Let me tell you about this carp.
They're an invasive species. A lot of people think they're just so cute. Oh, we can just release them. Guess what? They can wreck entire ecosystems, so you think you've got a peaceful pet? Some people, they flush them down the toilet. What ends up then, the Great Lakes? They're not so great anymore, OK?
MOLLY BLOOM: Time. Marcel, you'd like to say in response?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I don't know, I mean, invasive species sounds pretty xenophobic there, Nora. I personally like to welcome the goldfish into our communities in Lake of the Isles. I love to see them. I love-- I love all the different iterations of fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Beautiful All right, MARLOW, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the Declaration of Greatness you liked best, and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Award your points, but don't tell us who is getting them.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
MARLOW: I think I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, wonderful. Marcel and Nora, how are you two feeling so far?
NORA MCINERNY: I'm sweating. I'm sweating. This is a high pressure situation, and I'm not thriving. I'm not doing well, Molly. Thank you for checking.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm so sorry.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm as smooth as a fish right now. I don't know if that's a saying, but I'm going to-- I'm going to make that.
NORA MCINERNY: I am-- emotionally, I am on the hamster wheel.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Well, it's time for a quick break. Check your cages and clean your tanks.
MARLOW: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
SPEAKER 2: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hey, debate heads, Todd Douglas here with my pal, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: What's new, my argument amigo.
TODD DOUGLAS: What's new is I just saw a big time logical fallacy at the baseball field.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, a logical fallacy is a debate mistake that makes an argument super easy to defeat.
TODD DOUGLAS: That's right. And the fallacy I saw was the slippery slope fallacy. That's when you say a small action will result in a big, Earth-shattering outcome. It's an exaggeration to the max.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ooh, let's grab some peanuts and Cracker Jacks and watch this debate no-no.
COACH: Listen, Andrew, you're up to bat next, and I need you to hit a home run.
ANDREW: I'll try my best, coach.
COACH: You better. Because if you don't, then we won't score. And if we don't score, then we'll lose. And if we lose, I'll be out of a job. And if I'm out of a job, then I'll have to work at the zoo. And if I work at the zoo, the prairie dogs there will straight up eat me alive.
ANDREW: That seems like an overreaction.
TODD DOUGLAS: Whoa, that got real intense real fast.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Whew, it certainly did. He made it sound like not hitting a home run in the game would result in prairie dogs eating him alive.
TODD DOUGLAS: Prairie dogs are our friends and definitely don't eat baseball coaches. But more importantly, that's a whopper of a logical fallacy. It's totally absurd to think that missing one point is the difference between life and death.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: I'll say. All this baseball talk is making me thirsty.
TODD DOUGLAS: I think it's all the peanuts and Cracker Jacks you've been eating. We're off to get some lemonade. Catch you next time on State of Debate.
SPEAKER 3: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
ALIEN: Its alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. How about Brains On, my favorite science podcast.
SPEAKER 4: So this is Marc's nose?
MOLLY BLOOM: It's not actually as hairy as I would have thought.
SPEAKER 4: Whoa, check out that big crowd of boogers.
MOLLY BLOOM: And they're cheering for something?
BOOGER 1: Loogies and gentle phlegm, boogs and germs, gather 'round. Today, we--
BOOGER 2: Zorp. Signal down. Stay right there, tummy togas. Must find Brains On now.
SPEAKER 3: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER 5: Best.
SPEAKER 6: Smash. Smash. Boom.
SPEAKER 7: Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
MARLOW: And I'm your judge, MARLOW.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this festive debate idea from Tycho.
TYCHO: Hi, I'm Tycho, and I'm from Denver, Colorado. And I think there should be a debate about birthdays versus Christmas.
MARLOW: Now, that's a debate with a lot of presents.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Tycho thinks should win.
MARLOW: And now, it's back to our debate, hamsters versus goldfish.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
SPEAKER 1: Micro Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the Micro Round, each team has prepared a creative response to a challenge we gave them before the debate. Today, it's Dear Diary. Each side will read us a diary entry from either a hamster or a goldfish, respectively. Nora went first last time, so Marcel, you are up. Take us to the tank with your journal entry.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Dear Diary, it's me, Sasuke, the goldfish. I had a nightmare last night. I was on land, and instead of being a goldfish, I had to be a hamster. It was so bad. It was so dry out there. I had to find water to drink just to stay hydrated. Boo.
And man, the gravity was so strong, it just dragged me down the whole time. And I didn't even have my beautiful golden fins. I had these grubby little hands and feet. How does anyone move with those? I had to push my feet against the ground, just to get anywhere.
The agony. Absolutely terrible. My tank is usually so quiet and serene. But out on the land, there were all these sounds, honking and yelling, and people with their fancy Bluetooth speakers. How do you get any sleep up there? I was afraid. I was on edge the whole time.
I'm so glad to be back in the water, where everything is calm, where my snail friends clean the algae off my tank walls, where the pump makes a dull, warm, inviting hum all day, as I peruse the substrate for delectable delights. And I'm so grateful for this little piece of aquatic heaven, and I'll never take that for granted again. They say goldfish have short memories, but we don't. And I'll be remembering that horrible dream for a long time.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, Sasuke, so great to hear from him. All right, Nora, now it's your turn. Show us the inner thoughts of your furry friend.
NORA MCINERNY: Dear Diary, the start of the new year has me reflecting on my recent adventures with my family. Those humans might be gargantuan and have an alarming lack of fur, but I love them. And I love exploring their strangely large world. For instance, I took a road trip around the house in my car.
It's eco-friendly. I just get in a little plastic ball and run. In the kitchen, I saw wonders I never thought possible-- a huge box, packed with food. I suppose my family hides their food and stashes, like I do. People, they're just like hamsters. But my favorite trip last year was when dad tucked me into his shirt pocket.
I must have been 40 inches up in the air. I almost threw up. We went all the way to the living room. Dad stood in front of a magical portal, where I saw his face and another hamster sitting in his pocket. Every time I moved, the other hamster moved. I wanted to jump out of that pocket and fight for my territory, but instead, I hid in the pocket and ate some sunflower seeds.
And when I stuck my head back out, we were outside, like out of the house. And I saw the big sky light. I think it's called the sun. It was low and orange, and the sky was pink and purple. The clouds looked like cotton candy. The trees, well, they looked like trees. What a year. That's all for now. XOXO, Bernie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, a big day for little Bernie. OK, MARLOW, what did you like about and Marcel's Micro Rounds?
MARLOW: I loved everything, I think that imagery stood out to me in both arguments, but specifically, for goldfish, like their scales and lakes and ponds and even the-- everything. I loved it.
MOLLY BLOOM: And what stood out for you about the hamsters?
MARLOW: The hamsters, the vacation you took in the car.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, MARLOW, these are both excellent, but only one of them can get a point. So please award a point to the Micro Round that you liked best. Totally up to you. Did someone really transport you into the mind of their little furry or scaly friend? Have you made your decision?
MARLOW: You got it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then, it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
SPEAKER 1: Sneak Attack!
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round, where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called sentence by sentence. This challenge requires a little teamwork. Nora and Marcel, we want you to build a story together, and it has to involve both of your sides.
You'll each get three sentences to build this story from the ground up, and you'll go back and forth, sentence by sentence, until the story is done. Does that make sense, Marcel and Nora?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yes.
NORA MCINERNY: Yeah. Yeah, I think we can do this.
MOLLY BLOOM: Teamwork makes the dream work. OK, Marcel went first last time, so Nora, you get to start. Please give us the first opening sentence of this fabulous tale.
NORA MCINERNY: Once upon a time, in a pet store, a little kid was looking for the perfect pet; and they definitely did not want a fish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice. Very good. All right, Marcel, let's hear your second sentence.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: At least, not just any kind of fish, but a goldfish.
MOLLY BLOOM: Exclamation point.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Exclamation point.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, next sentence.
NORA MCINERNY: However, once they got to the goldfish aisle, they realized-- they realized that fish are wet, and who wants a wet pet?
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Marcel.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: This child wants the goldfish, because it's dazzling and gorgeous. And-- I don't know how many ands I can put--
MOLLY BLOOM: As many as you want.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: --the only pet in the world for this child.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. All right, Nora, it's your last sentence. Make it count.
NORA MCINERNY: Except in the other aisle, there is something cuter, something more charming, something more undeniably appealing in literally every single way: a beautiful, gorgeous, gentle, inexpensive hamster.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Marcel, your last sentence.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: It's just too bad that, that hamster was only the favorite of the child's parent.
MOLLY BLOOM: The end.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: The end.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, what a story. We really packed in a lot.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: There was a lot that went on in that story. It wasn't just a bunch of commas and semicolons and--
MOLLY BLOOM: I personally learned a lot about punctuation. I'm sure our listeners did as well.
MARLOW: I sure did.
MOLLY BLOOM: MARLOW, please think about which side impressed you the most for this Sneak Attack story, and award your fourth point. The criteria are totally up to you. Have you made your decision? I think I have.
[BELL DINGS]
All right, It's time for our final round.
SPEAKER 1: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Marcel, let's hear your six words for goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Gold, beautiful, bright, day and night.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, lovely. All right, Nora, it is your turn. Give us six words for hamsters.
NORA MCINERNY: Tiny hands, big cheeks can't lose.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. I love it. All right, MARLOW, it is time to award a final point for this Final Six.
MARLOW: I have awarded my point.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Great. And you tallied them up?
MARLOW: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: You ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
MARLOW: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, drum roll, please. And the winner is--
MARLOW: Goldfish.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Wooh. Three times. Three times.
NORA MCINERNY: Why, MARLOW?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Three times.
NORA MCINERNY: Why?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yeah, I'm swimming in all my glory right now I can. I don't hear anything coming from the other line. And Nora, if you're just taking a break, that's OK. I just want to let you know, I support you. Bernie, Gus, and I forget the last one's name. I think it is just Hamster, which is very, very creative and clever of you.
NORA MCINERNY: Was it-- was it a close debate?
MARLOW: Um.
NORA MCINERNY: MARLOW, was it close? MARLOW, was it close?
MARLOW: Those commas really hit me. Those punctuation that really-- you were not-- you guys were not acting as a team on that thing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hard to turn competitors into teammates. That is a tough.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Nora, I really appreciated the voice you used in your Micro Round. That was the different voice that I hadn't heard come from you before, and it made me think that you have-- I feel like you should be somewhere in the voice field, as a profession, like you should use your voice, and then--
NORA MCINERNY: I accept.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: And so that was very cool. And the imagery was so vivid, and the word cute does stand out to me with hamsters now because of Nora. So thank you-- thank you for making me think they're not just a rat that's rebranded itself.
NORA MCINERNY: Here's what I have to say to Marcel Malekebu. There's nobody on Earth that I would rather lose anything to. There is no worthier opponent than Marcel with a guitar and two adorable children singing along with him. It a little bit of a dirty move? Yeah, and that's what I respect about it, OK?
And you made-- you made goldfish seem like a zen exercise and not just a smelly bowl of water. So that was really good. You did a really good job. You are a very worthy opponent, and it's always an honor to lose to you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that is it for today's debate battle. MARLOW crowned goldfish the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
MARLOW: Head to smashboom.org, and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez, with sound design by--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: The fact-checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA WRIGHT: Joshua Wright.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives-in-charge are Chandra Kavati and Joann Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Nora, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
NORA MCINERNY: Kids, this isn't over. Go to smashboom.org, vote for hamsters. This was rigged. Don't let this stand. Don't give up. OK, I need everyone behind this. It's not over. Don't give up, smashboom.org. Vote for hamsters. Shout out to Jack and Lucy Gilmore, my niece and nephew. I'm so sorry that I lost, yet again. And to my little kids, Ralph and Cue, thanks for all the hammy jammy times.
MOLLY BLOOM: And how about you, Marcel, any special shout outs?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm just going to give a shout out to Amani and Nia. Thank you guys. We are now two for two with Nora, and we are three for three as a Malekebu family, so I just want to put that out there. Thank you for helping me be a member of the winning team.
MOLLY BLOOM: And MARLOW, any special thanks or shout outs?
MARLOW: Yes, I would like to thank all my friends and my family, especially my parents, for driving me here and everything. Yeah, thank you for having me as well.
MOLLY BLOOM: Thank you for being here. Before we go, let's check in and see who Tycho thinks should win the birthdays versus Christmas debate.
TYCHO: I think birthdays should win because they are fun and they're more activities than Christmas.
MARLOW: Smash Boom Best is a non-profit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18, and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age, and you have an idea for a knock down drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smarty Pass for bonus episodes and ad-free versions of all four shows in the Brains On Universe. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week-- cake versus pie.
NORA MCINERNY: See ya.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Peace.
NORA MCINERNY: Bye bye. Smell ya later.
SPEAKER: Oh, you have a Smash Boom Best. Oh, put you through the test. Oh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Oh, better than the rest. it's Smash Boom Best. It's Smash Boom Best.
NORA MCINERNY: This is when you discover I'm not a creative person. This one, you discover I should have an accountant.
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