Today’s debate zooms out to the farthest reaches of space then back in to the tiniest details of life on Earth. It’s Telescope vs. Microscope! Astronomer Mark Popinchalk will leave you starry-eyed for Team Telescope, while writer and producer Menaka Wilhelm will fill you with marvel for Team Microscope. Who will reign supreme in this ultimate battle of magnification? Vote below for the team YOU think won!
Also… do you have your Smarty Pass yet? Get yours today for just $5/month (or $45/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um and Forever Ago. Visit www.smartypass.org to get your Smarty Pass today. As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly!
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Audio Transcript
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MOLLY BLOOM: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
YASMINE: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate zooms out to the farthest reaches of space, then back in to the tiniest details of life on Earth. It's telescopes versus microscopes. We've got astronomer Mark Popinchalk here to leave you starry-eyed for team Telescopes.
MARK POPINCHALK: Tell your family, tell your friends, tell everyone, the best tool is a telescope.
MOLLY BLOOM: And writer and producer Menaka Wilhelm will fill you with marvel for team Microscopes.
MENAKA WILHELM: Micro, but mighty. We're scoping stuff that's tiny.
[CHUCKLING]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Yasmine from Vancouver, Canada. Yasmine is a gray belt in jiu-jitsu, loves making her own Halloween costumes, is fluent in Japanese, and once did an entire Smash Boom Best style debate with her dad. Hi, Yasmine.
YASMINE: Konnichiwa. Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. So, what were the sides you and your dad represented in your debate?
YASMINE: It was apples versus oranges, since I love apple juice. And my dad is strongly orange juice, so we decided to have a debate about that, and I won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hey, congratulations. What tactics did you use to win?
YASMINE: I presented a lot of facts, and I did a lot of research, so I think that's how I won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very impressive. So since you have debated, I'm curious if you have any advice for our debaters today.
YASMINE: Bring positive energy and make me want to vote for you.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Make Yasmine want to vote for you, excellent advice. Will Yasmine side with Mark or Menaka? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds, the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge, Yasmine, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. Mark, Menaka, and Yasmine, are you ready?
YASMINE: Yes! This whole thing is a dream come true.
MARK POPINCHALK: So ready.
MENAKA WILHELM: [LAUGHS] Definitely. My enthusiasm for looking at small stuff is anything but micro.
MOLLY BLOOM: it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Mark, you're up first. Tell us what makes telescopes so terrific.
MARK POPINCHALK: All right, let's get into it. I think telescopes are--
[WAVES SPLASHING, BIRDS SQUEAKING]
Wait, who is that?
SPACE BEARD: Yarr, I'm the dreaded space pirate, Space Beard.
MARK POPINCHALK: Oh, no!
SPACE BEARD: Oh, yes. Behold my great big bushy beard. I braid in all these little stars. It's as deep as the night sky. I be hearing yarr be talking about telescopes.
MARK POPINCHALK: Aye, aye, Captain.
SPACE BEARD: Well, I be using them to scan the horizon for land or sails. It do be making faraway things much easier to see.
MARK POPINCHALK: Do you use it to look at the night sky?
SPACE BEARD: Only if by night sky, you mean me beard. I do lose things in it sometimes.
[BIRD WINGS FLAP]
Ah! Get out of there!
[WINGS FLAPPING]
MARK POPINCHALK: And who are all them?
SPACE BEARD: Oh, I brought my cheersome crew of scallywags and bright students to sing you our favorite spyglass sea shanty.
MARK POPINCHALK: Wait, wait. I don't think--
SPACE BEARD (SINGING): If we're on the waves
I cannot walk without my trusty telescope
It's never far away from me
So we can see the sea
Oh, I love how I'm always on
And I can see the horizon--
MARK POPINCHALK: Sorry, got to cut you off. Sadly, we don't have time for that.
SPACE BEARD: Yarr.
MARK POPINCHALK: I've got to stay focused so I can explain why telescopes are the most incredible tools humans have ever made.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Telescopes help you see faraway stuff. They do this by taking in light, then bending or bouncing it around to make images appear bigger. The first to look at the night sky with a telescope was Galileo Galilei.
GALILEO GALILEI: Whoa, qué cosa?
MARK POPINCHALK: He saw craters on the moon, the rings of Saturn, and whole new worlds orbiting around Jupiter.
GALILEO GALILEI: Magnifico.
MARK POPINCHALK: His observations blew minds because it helped confirm Earth was just one planet among many. And then there was Edwin Hubble. He noticed that the fuzzy parts of space weren't just clouds, they were other galaxies.
EDWIN HUBBLE: Whoa! Space is full of island universes.
MARK POPINCHALK: And of course, there was Vera Rubin. With a telescope, she observed how galaxies move over time. And she noticed that the movements only made sense if there was some invisible stuff hiding in plain sight.
VERA RUBIN: Incredible. There has to be something there that can't be seen.
MARK POPINCHALK: This led to the discovery of dark matter. Thanks to telescopes, we went from thinking the universe was revolving around the Earth to realizing it was bigger and more wondrous than anyone could imagine. And telescopes are useful on Earth, too. Ever looked through a pair of binoculars to watch a bird?
[BIRD CHIRPING]
Or maybe take in some opera?
[OPERATIC VOCALIZING]
Or a bird singing opera?
[BIRD CHIRPING]
Well, binoculars are just two tiny telescopes, one for each eye. But the coolest thing about a telescope is that you can use it to share the universe with someone else. I remember the first time I used a powerful telescope in college. I peered through a tiny hole and saw Saturn's rings for the first time. It was a literal window to another world.
Soon, I was bringing all my friends there so they could see Saturn and have their minds blown, too. In fact, I think that's why I became an astronomer, so I could keep sharing the universe with whoever wants to look.
SPACE BEARD: Even me?
MARK POPINCHALK: Even you, Space Beard.
SPACE BEARD: Yeah. Well, that makes me want to sing!
MARK POPINCHALK: Wait, hold on.
SPACE BEARD (SINGING): Now it's time that we set sail
But first, our spyglass without fail
What can we see, my hearty crew?
We'll list is all now, just for you!
Clouds
Clouds
Waves
Waves
More waves
More waves
Is that a whale?
Not a whale
It's just a wave, just a wave
Every time
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
Oh, man. A delightful song, singing the praises of an object that helps us see the really big picture. Yasmine, what stood out to you about Mark's declaration of greatness?
YASMINE: I enjoyed lots of the facts. And I very much enjoyed the sea shanty.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's hard to beat a sea shanty. Menaka, it is time for your rebuttal. Please tell us why telescopes can't even cope. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MENAKA WILHELM: I did also love that you were singing to us and not just telling us about telescopes. However, telescopes, you're looking at things, and they're far away, and they're still really far away. You can see stuff that's cool with the telescope, but many of the space things can be very overwhelming. They're very big.
And in general, I just think it's cooler to be zooming in to looking at something small and making it bigger than squinting through or taking a photo of something big--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MENAKA WILHELM: --and making it smaller. Thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MARK POPINCHALK: I think Space Beard, if he was here, he'd be very happy to hear how everybody likes his shanty. And I got to say that big things are definitely big. I think I have a point I want to make about that later, for sure.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mark Popinchalk says big things are big. Menaka, it's your turn. Tell us why microscopes are full of hope.
MENAKA WILHELM: Let's start in the early days of the microscope. About 350 years ago in the Netherlands, a man named Antonie van Leeuwenhoek was one of the first people to really make use of this new invention that lets you see tiny things up close.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Today I shall look at this pond water beneath my microscope.
ALGAE: It's me. I'm Algae.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Huh, a cavorting specimen, a completely new teeny-tiny creature with green and glittering scales.
ALGAE: Uh, yeah, algae, like I said. Who are you?
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: I'm Antonie van Leeuwenhoek.
ALGAE: That name doesn't ring a bell.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Well, I'm not exactly famous. I run a fabric shop. On the side, I love making these little microscopes. I took inspiration from a few people who made scopes before me, but I'm probably the best microscope-maker of my time.
ALGAE: Sounds like it's maybe not paying your bills.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Rude, but yeah. Still, I've seen so many wonders up close, the rinds of cheese, plaque from my teeth, blood from my veins, even my own poo.
ALGAE: Brave.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: And my oh my. I see wee beasties everywhere. They're small, but alive, like little animals. I shall call them animalcules, since that's Latin for little animals, animalcules rule.
MENAKA WILHELM: So until this time, we didn't know that living things could be this small or that there were tiny beings all around us. Microscopes opened up entirely new worlds, and I've seen these worlds myself because I have a microscope, too. When I've zoomed in on pollen from flowers, the grains come in all kinds of colors, like plant sprinkles.
When I look at needles from the fir trees outside my house, I see they're curved with little ridges, like tiny celery. And when I've scoped blood, I can see the bits that make our blood red, the disks called red blood cells.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: [CLEARS THROAT] don't forget, I saw blood cells way before you.
MENAKA WILHELM: I could never. And nice timing, Antonie. I'm just getting to how microscopes have changed our world. And you are one of the people who kicked this off.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Tell that to the microbe that thinks I'm a nobody.
MENAKA WILHELM: Oh, don't worry about what one little microbe told you. Probably they're just cranky after going undiscovered for billions of years. Without microscopes, we'd never have found them. And microscopes have shown us worlds inside of our own bodies, too.
We learned that we've got tiny living things called microbes within us. When we digest our food, billions of tiny pals in our guts help us out. They're also on our skin, in our mouths, all over. Some keep us healthy, and others make us sick. And understanding these tiny beings has helped us stay healthier, too. Before microscopes, we sometimes missed the mark about what made people sick.
DOCTOR: [CLEARS THROAT] As your medieval doctor, I think the cause of your illness is an imbalance of liquids in your body. You probably have too much blood. That, or the planets.
MENAKA WILHELM: With microscopes, we've been able to understand that microbes, like bacteria, can make us sick, and we can fight them.
SPEAKER 1: Illnesses, they seem to be caused by tiny animalcules. But if we wash our hands, we can get rid of germs and stop them from spreading.
SPEAKER 2: And look, I found that this chemical stops germs from growing. We can use this as medicine to help people heal.
MENAKA WILHELM: And since the days of animalcules, microscopes have only gotten better at showing us the worlds within our own. Some microscopes even let us see the atoms that living things are made of. There are still plenty of living things that we haven't discovered, yet. So, sure, telescopes show us neat things, too, but we've only ever discovered life with one kind of scope, and it's when we've looked inward rather than out with our trusty microscopes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, a delightful argument there. Animalcules sounds so adorable, but life-changing to know about them. Yasmine, what stood out to you about Menaka's declaration of greatness?
YASMINE: First of all, I did not know that microbes are grumpy.
[LAUGHTER]
Second, it really reminded me of how we were talking about osmosis in science class this year. And we used microscopes on red onions to see the cells and some of the things inside of them, so that was really cool. And I like that experience with microscopes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very cool, indeed. Mark, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why microscopes are a big old joke. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MARK POPINCHALK: Well, I want to point out that van Leeuwenhoek made one of the first microscopes, but one of the person who made one before that was Galileo. And do we think about Galileo's microscope? No, because he focused on the much cooler thing, the telescope. And it's cool to think about these tiny things, but also a little discomforting to know that there's millions of creatures crawling all over my skin.
And just to point out that your small is small, but the bigger things are much, much bigger. The kind of size of things that we look at in the telescope are much bigger compared--
MENAKA WILHELM: I think we should talk about Galileo's microscopes a lot more than we do. That's all.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm.
MARK POPINCHALK: Hmm.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's very nice. Yasmine, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic extra convincing? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Menaka and Mark, how are you two feeling so far?
MENAKA WILHELM: I'm feeling great. I think there's a lot of really great stuff to talk about. And the best things to talk about are really small. And also, I'm excited for the next round because I'd like everyone to note it's the Micro Round, not the Tele Round. Thank you.
MARK POPINCHALK: Well, if it was the Macro Round, this podcast would be a lot, lot longer. So we got to keep it short for a reason because--
MENAKA WILHELM: Sounds like a snooze fest.
MARK POPINCHALK: --we've got to move on past the small things as quick as we can.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: It is time for a quick break. Gather your specimens and get focused.
YASMINE: And we'll be right back with more of Smash Boom Best.
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, hey, debate buddies, I'm here with the exquisitely-dressed Todd Douglas.
TODD DOUGLAS: It's me, and I'm with the swellest smiler, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Aw, thanks, pal.
TODD DOUGLAS: Did you do something different with your hair? It looks divine.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Why, yes, I tried washing it. And Todd, your nails are so well-trimmed.
TODD DOUGLAS: Nail hygiene is my passion.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Aren't complements the best? But you know what's the worst? A logical fallacy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Those are bad arguments that hurt your case. And we saw a nasty fallacy dealt by one of the sweetest people in the world, the Complement Fairy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ooh, the Complement Fairy used the ad hominem fallacy. That's when you attack someone's character instead of their ideas. Let's listen.
[FILM ROLLING]
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: Hello, Sarah, your curls are a ray of sunshine. Mac, did I tell you I love your singing voice? Oh, Charlie, I heard you aced your math test. You are the smartest kid in the world.
CHARLIE: Thanks, Complement Fairy, but don't be silly.
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: Silly? Oh, heavens no. I'm just telling you how you're the most intelligent little tyke.
CHARLIE: Yeah, but how would if I'm the most intelligent? Have you surveyed all the little tykes in the world? Plus, how are you defining intelligence? Even education professionals struggle to define intelligence. Furthermore, what constitutes a little tyke or a kid for that matter? Are you comparing my intelligence to that of a teenager or a baby? Because that hardly seems fair.
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: [SIGHS] See? All of your quibbles just serve to emphasize how incomparably smart you are.
CHARLIE: Frankly, your lack of insight into the complement you gave me calls into question the authenticity of your complements in the past.
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: Well, of course you wouldn't agree you're the smartest kid because you're just a know-it-all, aren't you?
[BUZZER]
TODD DOUGLAS: Ouch! Not cool.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah, and even with the best intentions, you can still make a fallacy. By the way, the Complement Fairy did apologize to Charlie right after this. And trust me, it was the most sincere apology ever.
TODD DOUGLAS: Good to hear. But can we be sure it was the most sincere ever?
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Drop it, Todd. We'll see you next time on--
BOTH: State of Debate.
NARRATOR: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[WHOOSHING SOUND]
MARTIAN: It's alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. [GIGGLES] How about--
[KEYPAD CLACKING]
Brains On, my favorite science podcast.
YASMINE: So this is Mark's nose?
MOLLY BLOOM: It's not actually as hairy as I would have thought.
YASMINE: Whoa, check out that big crowd of boogers.
MOLLY BLOOM: And they're cheering for something?
ANNOUNCER: Loogies and gentle-phlegm, boogs and germs, gather around. Today we will--
[BEEPS]
MARTIAN: Zorp! Signal down. [GROANS] Stay right there, tummy togas, must find Brains On now!
NARRATOR: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MAN: Best.
WOMAN: Boom.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash. Smash.
WOMAN: Boom.
MAN: Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
YASMINE: And I'm your judge, Yasmine.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this adorable debate idea from Emmy.
EMMY: Pusheen versus Hello Kitty.
YASMINE: Aw. But meow will we choose?
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Emmy thinks should win.
YASMINE: And now it's back to our debate, telescopes versus microscopes.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round 2, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the Micro Round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Mark and Menaka, the prompt was "See Me." We told each debater to give us a monologue as something that is seen by either your microscope or telescope. Describe what it's like to be truly seen. Mark went first last time, so Menaka, you're up, give us your most magnificent microscope monologue.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALGAE: Hi, hello. I see you peeping at me with your microscope. Me? I'm Algae, of course. Technically, I'm just one alga. But who's asking? My ancestors have been in pond water for three billion years. And you just show up one day with your little microscope lens, you scoop me from my home and expect me to spell everything out for you? Wait, sorry. That sounds very rude.
It's actually nice to meet a-- what were you called? A huge fan? A shoe bin? Oh, human. That's right. First of all, no, [LAUGHS] I'm not a teeny-tiny mermaid, though I do have green and glittering scales. Sometimes people mix me up with someone named Angie. I've never met her. We're different.
Thanks to your microscopes, you can learn all about how us, algae, were here before plants. Mm-hmm, they descended from us. We've been busy making half the oxygen on this planet. But also, we've wandered for all these billions of years if there was anything bigger than us out there. We just have never had like a mega scope to search with.
But here you are, a giant lumbering creature beyond our little pond world. I'm starstruck, but by your largeness, large-struck? Is that a thing? So, yeah, nice to meet you. But do you think when we're done here, maybe you could return me to my pond? It's just it's the only place I've ever known. I'm sure you understand.
MOLLY BLOOM: That glamorous alga really taking advantage of that close up. I love it. Mark, now it's your turn, tell us all about the terrific telescope.
ANDROMEDA: Hey. Hello? Tiny human, up here! It's me, Andromeda. I'm a galaxy, but not the galaxy you live in, a whole other galaxy, probably with millions of planets just like yours. Ka-blow! Did I just blow your mind? Well, that's what it must have felt like for you humans the first time you saw me. I mean, really saw me. Before telescopes, you just saw me as a blurry spot on the night sky, like a bug left over on a windshield.
But when you finally got your scopes working, you could see I was a whole lot more and nothing you'd ever seen before. You saw I got these glorious spiral arms. Flattered you finally noticed them. I've had to pump a lot of solar systems to build these bad boys. And boy, I felt so cool when you built bigger telescopes. And you kept looking, and you finally realized that I was full of stars going about their lives, just like the ones in your Milky Way, but over a million light years away.
Let me tell you, it's a long drive. Finally, finally, someone could see me for what I really am, a whole city of stars different from your own. Now I'm with friends who can see the real me because I'm shining here.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, we got to hear from a galaxy and that's not even ours? Incredible work, telescopes. Yasmine, what stood out to you about Mark and Menaka's micro rounds?
YASMINE: How different humans must have realized the world is when these things came around because I feel like lots of mythology and stuff surrounds these kinds of things because I feel like it's really mysterious, in a way, and I feel like it still is to people.
MOLLY BLOOM: That is a really, really good point. All right, Yasmine, it is time to award a point for this Micro Round, but don't tell us who it's going to.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yep.
[DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
MAN: Ah-hah! Hoo-hah!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round, where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called the Zoom Zoom Challenge. Each debater is given a series of short sound clips that are either slowed down or sped up, and they have to guess what the sound is based on the altered audio. In effect, each clue will microscope in or telescope out of the original sound. Debaters, does this make sense? Are you ready for your Sneak Attack?
MENAKA WILHELM: Yes, I'm very ready for this.
MARK POPINCHALK: In a big way.
MOLLY BLOOM: We're going to start with Mark. Here is your first clip.
[SLOWED ROOSTER CROWING]
MARK POPINCHALK: Mm-hmm.
MOLLY BLOOM: Any guesses, Mark?
MARK POPINCHALK: I'd have to wake up pretty early to guess that one, but I think it is a rooster.
MOLLY BLOOM: What's the answer?
[ROOSTER CROWING]
Nice, a sped-up rooster, you got it right. Menaka, it's your turn. Here's your first clip.
[SLOWED TRAIN WHISTLING]
What do you think?
MENAKA WILHELM: This one's probably slowed down. It sounds either like orchestral music or a chair scooting back against the floor in a very nice way.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. Let's get the answer.
[TRAIN WHISTLES]
MENAKA WILHELM: Oh, it's like a harmonica.
MARK POPINCHALK: Is it a train whistle?
MOLLY BLOOM: The answer is a train whistle.
MENAKA WILHELM: Oh, a train whistle.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Mark, you're up. Here's your second clip.
[SLOWED ZIPPING SOUND]
Hmm, another tricky one. What do you think?
MARK POPINCHALK: I think it's pretty cold in New York right now. I've got to zip up when I go outside. I think it's a zipper slowed down.
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's hear it in its normal speed.
[ZIPPING SOUND]
Correct again, Mark, it is a zipper. All right, Menaka, here is your second clip. Whoa, that was very fast.
[LAUGHING]
MENAKA WILHELM: I think we better hear that again.
[SPED UP KEYBOARD CLACKING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
What do you think?
MENAKA WILHELM: Well, this sounds like an ant scurrying by my microphone. But what could it be that a human could have recorded? Maybe it's someone tapping their fingers on a desk? Typing. Maybe it's typing on a keyboard sped up.
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's hear it at its normal speed.
[KEYBOARD CLACKING]
MENAKA WILHELM: Nice.
MOLLY BLOOM: Menaka, you are correct.
MENAKA WILHELM: Thank goodness.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work.
MARK POPINCHALK: I feel like yours have been harder than mine.
MENAKA WILHELM: I felt like, I don't know what that was. I was like, what?
MOLLY BLOOM: Mark, here is your final clip.
[SLOWED SODA CAN POPPING]
Oh, that was a whole story.
MARK POPINCHALK: Whoa.
MENAKA WILHELM: Yeah.
MARK POPINCHALK: This debate has gotten me pretty parched. I think it's somebody opening a beverage, like a little pop from a beverage.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent guess. Let's hear the answer.
[SODA CAN POPPING]
Mm, nice ears, Mark.
MENAKA WILHELM: Great work there.
MARK POPINCHALK: There we go.
MOLLY BLOOM: It was a soda can being opened. That was tricky. All right, Menaka, here is your final clip.
[SQUEAKING SOUND]
MENAKA WILHELM: This sounds like a bird.
MOLLY BLOOM: This one's so short. It does sound like a bird. All right, let's hear it again.
[SQUEAKING SOUND]
MENAKA WILHELM: I think I have to go, bird, but which one? I couldn't tell you.
MOLLY BLOOM: What do you think, a bird, an animal?
MENAKA WILHELM: A bird, a record scratch, I don't know.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: It's a DJ bird, a bird DJ.
MENAKA WILHELM: It's definitely an animal. I think it could be a bird DJ.
MOLLY BLOOM: Is that your final answer?
MENAKA WILHELM: I think it might be a different kind of animal. It might be a squirrel. That's my final answer, squirrel.
MOLLY BLOOM: Squirrel?
MENAKA WILHELM: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Here is what it sounds like at its normal speed.
[DOG BARKING]
[LAUGHING]
MARK POPINCHALK: What?
MENAKA WILHELM: A dog? Wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: The answer is a dog barking, specifically a Shih Tzu, which is honestly not that much bigger than a squirrel, so--
MENAKA WILHELM: I appreciate that, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: You were pretty close.
MENAKA WILHELM: I thought that it might be a monkey. I do really--
MOLLY BLOOM: That was really hard.
MENAKA WILHELM: Also, just like the idea that if you fast forward a dog, you get a DJ bird.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm going to get a Tzu and name him DJ Bird. Excellent work, Mark and Menaka. Now, Yasmine, you get to decide who gets the point for this fourth round. And again, it is completely subjective. So you can take into account the difficulty of the clips, how well people guessed the creativity on display.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yes, I think I have.
[DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect. Then it's time for our final round--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Menaka, let's hear your six words for the marvelous microscope.
MENAKA WILHELM: Worlds to see, right here, baby.
MOLLY BLOOM: Delightful. Mark, it is your turn, give us six words on the tremendous telescope.
MARK POPINCHALK: Telescope views bring universe to you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm, very nice. Yasmine, it is time to award a final point for the Final Six. Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yes, I have.
[DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boon Best?
YASMINE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drumroll, please. And the winner is--
YASMINE: Microscopes!
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow! Oh my goodness.
MENAKA WILHELM: Thank you, Yasmine. Also, you made the right choice.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Thank you for being correct, Menaka.
MARK POPINCHALK: You don't need a telescope or a microscope to see how heartbroken I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
MARK POPINCHALK: But microscopes did such a good job.
YASMINE: I'm sorry.
MARK POPINCHALK: It's totally fair.
YASMINE: So it was one by one point in the rebuttal. Originally, I had it on your side, and then I changed it.
MARK POPINCHALK: Oh, no.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, man. It was as close as close could be.
MENAKA WILHELM: Wow. Well, I mean, I thought you did a great job, Mark. I loved hearing about how binoculars are telescopes. I use those all the time.
MARK POPINCHALK: Well, Menaka, we actually are talking about very similar things because microscopes and telescopes use lenses to move light around to make things that you wouldn't be able to see. So, really, we're both kind of winning here, although you're the one who actually won, so congratulations.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Yasmine crowned microscopes the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
YASMINE: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by Molly Bloom--
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Josh Savageau, Garry O'Keeffe, and Firby Midgley, with sound design by--
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel--
RACHEL BREES: --and Rachel Brees.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: With fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team--
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Mark, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
MARK POPINCHALK: I'll give a shout out to my professors in college who got me access to that telescope when I first started. Thank you to them for sending me on this journey.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. And how about you, Menaka, any special shout outs?
MENAKA WILHELM: I would like to shout out some of my favorite small things that inspired me as I prepared, which you don't need a microscope to see. One of them is Marcel the Shell with Shoes On. Another is the song All The Small Things by Blink 182. And lastly, I love those extra small Vaseline tubs that are shaped exactly like the big ones. Thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: And Yasmine, do you want to give any special thanks or shout outs?
YASMINE: To my friends at Tupper, my mom and my dad, and all the people who have bought me books about science and all different topics over the years.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's lovely. Before we go, let's check in and see who Emmy thinks should win, the Pusheen versus Hello Kitty debate.
EMMY: I know that it'll be Pusheen because like she is just adorable, and she is just so fluffy and cute. And she just comes in like mermaids and unicorns, everything. She's just so adorable.
YASMINE: Smash Boom Best is a non-profit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock-down, drag-out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And make sure to sign up for the Brains On Universe newsletter for bonus activities, reading recommendations, conversation starters, and more. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week. Bye-bye.
YASMINE: Bye. Ta-da-da.
MARK POPINCHALK: Good big-- I mean, goodbye.
[LAUGHING]
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, put you through the test
Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, better than the rest
It's the Smash Boom Best
You're the Smash Boom Best
MARK POPINCHALK: Thanks for pretending to remain impartial at this point.
YASMINE: I'm sorry.
[LAUGHING]
YASMINE: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate zooms out to the farthest reaches of space, then back in to the tiniest details of life on Earth. It's telescopes versus microscopes. We've got astronomer Mark Popinchalk here to leave you starry-eyed for team Telescopes.
MARK POPINCHALK: Tell your family, tell your friends, tell everyone, the best tool is a telescope.
MOLLY BLOOM: And writer and producer Menaka Wilhelm will fill you with marvel for team Microscopes.
MENAKA WILHELM: Micro, but mighty. We're scoping stuff that's tiny.
[CHUCKLING]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Yasmine from Vancouver, Canada. Yasmine is a gray belt in jiu-jitsu, loves making her own Halloween costumes, is fluent in Japanese, and once did an entire Smash Boom Best style debate with her dad. Hi, Yasmine.
YASMINE: Konnichiwa. Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. So, what were the sides you and your dad represented in your debate?
YASMINE: It was apples versus oranges, since I love apple juice. And my dad is strongly orange juice, so we decided to have a debate about that, and I won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hey, congratulations. What tactics did you use to win?
YASMINE: I presented a lot of facts, and I did a lot of research, so I think that's how I won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very impressive. So since you have debated, I'm curious if you have any advice for our debaters today.
YASMINE: Bring positive energy and make me want to vote for you.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Make Yasmine want to vote for you, excellent advice. Will Yasmine side with Mark or Menaka? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds, the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge, Yasmine, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. Mark, Menaka, and Yasmine, are you ready?
YASMINE: Yes! This whole thing is a dream come true.
MARK POPINCHALK: So ready.
MENAKA WILHELM: [LAUGHS] Definitely. My enthusiasm for looking at small stuff is anything but micro.
MOLLY BLOOM: it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Mark, you're up first. Tell us what makes telescopes so terrific.
MARK POPINCHALK: All right, let's get into it. I think telescopes are--
[WAVES SPLASHING, BIRDS SQUEAKING]
Wait, who is that?
SPACE BEARD: Yarr, I'm the dreaded space pirate, Space Beard.
MARK POPINCHALK: Oh, no!
SPACE BEARD: Oh, yes. Behold my great big bushy beard. I braid in all these little stars. It's as deep as the night sky. I be hearing yarr be talking about telescopes.
MARK POPINCHALK: Aye, aye, Captain.
SPACE BEARD: Well, I be using them to scan the horizon for land or sails. It do be making faraway things much easier to see.
MARK POPINCHALK: Do you use it to look at the night sky?
SPACE BEARD: Only if by night sky, you mean me beard. I do lose things in it sometimes.
[BIRD WINGS FLAP]
Ah! Get out of there!
[WINGS FLAPPING]
MARK POPINCHALK: And who are all them?
SPACE BEARD: Oh, I brought my cheersome crew of scallywags and bright students to sing you our favorite spyglass sea shanty.
MARK POPINCHALK: Wait, wait. I don't think--
SPACE BEARD (SINGING): If we're on the waves
I cannot walk without my trusty telescope
It's never far away from me
So we can see the sea
Oh, I love how I'm always on
And I can see the horizon--
MARK POPINCHALK: Sorry, got to cut you off. Sadly, we don't have time for that.
SPACE BEARD: Yarr.
MARK POPINCHALK: I've got to stay focused so I can explain why telescopes are the most incredible tools humans have ever made.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Telescopes help you see faraway stuff. They do this by taking in light, then bending or bouncing it around to make images appear bigger. The first to look at the night sky with a telescope was Galileo Galilei.
GALILEO GALILEI: Whoa, qué cosa?
MARK POPINCHALK: He saw craters on the moon, the rings of Saturn, and whole new worlds orbiting around Jupiter.
GALILEO GALILEI: Magnifico.
MARK POPINCHALK: His observations blew minds because it helped confirm Earth was just one planet among many. And then there was Edwin Hubble. He noticed that the fuzzy parts of space weren't just clouds, they were other galaxies.
EDWIN HUBBLE: Whoa! Space is full of island universes.
MARK POPINCHALK: And of course, there was Vera Rubin. With a telescope, she observed how galaxies move over time. And she noticed that the movements only made sense if there was some invisible stuff hiding in plain sight.
VERA RUBIN: Incredible. There has to be something there that can't be seen.
MARK POPINCHALK: This led to the discovery of dark matter. Thanks to telescopes, we went from thinking the universe was revolving around the Earth to realizing it was bigger and more wondrous than anyone could imagine. And telescopes are useful on Earth, too. Ever looked through a pair of binoculars to watch a bird?
[BIRD CHIRPING]
Or maybe take in some opera?
[OPERATIC VOCALIZING]
Or a bird singing opera?
[BIRD CHIRPING]
Well, binoculars are just two tiny telescopes, one for each eye. But the coolest thing about a telescope is that you can use it to share the universe with someone else. I remember the first time I used a powerful telescope in college. I peered through a tiny hole and saw Saturn's rings for the first time. It was a literal window to another world.
Soon, I was bringing all my friends there so they could see Saturn and have their minds blown, too. In fact, I think that's why I became an astronomer, so I could keep sharing the universe with whoever wants to look.
SPACE BEARD: Even me?
MARK POPINCHALK: Even you, Space Beard.
SPACE BEARD: Yeah. Well, that makes me want to sing!
MARK POPINCHALK: Wait, hold on.
SPACE BEARD (SINGING): Now it's time that we set sail
But first, our spyglass without fail
What can we see, my hearty crew?
We'll list is all now, just for you!
Clouds
Clouds
Waves
Waves
More waves
More waves
Is that a whale?
Not a whale
It's just a wave, just a wave
Every time
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
Oh, man. A delightful song, singing the praises of an object that helps us see the really big picture. Yasmine, what stood out to you about Mark's declaration of greatness?
YASMINE: I enjoyed lots of the facts. And I very much enjoyed the sea shanty.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's hard to beat a sea shanty. Menaka, it is time for your rebuttal. Please tell us why telescopes can't even cope. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MENAKA WILHELM: I did also love that you were singing to us and not just telling us about telescopes. However, telescopes, you're looking at things, and they're far away, and they're still really far away. You can see stuff that's cool with the telescope, but many of the space things can be very overwhelming. They're very big.
And in general, I just think it's cooler to be zooming in to looking at something small and making it bigger than squinting through or taking a photo of something big--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MENAKA WILHELM: --and making it smaller. Thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MARK POPINCHALK: I think Space Beard, if he was here, he'd be very happy to hear how everybody likes his shanty. And I got to say that big things are definitely big. I think I have a point I want to make about that later, for sure.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mark Popinchalk says big things are big. Menaka, it's your turn. Tell us why microscopes are full of hope.
MENAKA WILHELM: Let's start in the early days of the microscope. About 350 years ago in the Netherlands, a man named Antonie van Leeuwenhoek was one of the first people to really make use of this new invention that lets you see tiny things up close.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Today I shall look at this pond water beneath my microscope.
ALGAE: It's me. I'm Algae.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Huh, a cavorting specimen, a completely new teeny-tiny creature with green and glittering scales.
ALGAE: Uh, yeah, algae, like I said. Who are you?
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: I'm Antonie van Leeuwenhoek.
ALGAE: That name doesn't ring a bell.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Well, I'm not exactly famous. I run a fabric shop. On the side, I love making these little microscopes. I took inspiration from a few people who made scopes before me, but I'm probably the best microscope-maker of my time.
ALGAE: Sounds like it's maybe not paying your bills.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Rude, but yeah. Still, I've seen so many wonders up close, the rinds of cheese, plaque from my teeth, blood from my veins, even my own poo.
ALGAE: Brave.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: And my oh my. I see wee beasties everywhere. They're small, but alive, like little animals. I shall call them animalcules, since that's Latin for little animals, animalcules rule.
MENAKA WILHELM: So until this time, we didn't know that living things could be this small or that there were tiny beings all around us. Microscopes opened up entirely new worlds, and I've seen these worlds myself because I have a microscope, too. When I've zoomed in on pollen from flowers, the grains come in all kinds of colors, like plant sprinkles.
When I look at needles from the fir trees outside my house, I see they're curved with little ridges, like tiny celery. And when I've scoped blood, I can see the bits that make our blood red, the disks called red blood cells.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: [CLEARS THROAT] don't forget, I saw blood cells way before you.
MENAKA WILHELM: I could never. And nice timing, Antonie. I'm just getting to how microscopes have changed our world. And you are one of the people who kicked this off.
ANTONIE VAN LEEUWENHOEK: Tell that to the microbe that thinks I'm a nobody.
MENAKA WILHELM: Oh, don't worry about what one little microbe told you. Probably they're just cranky after going undiscovered for billions of years. Without microscopes, we'd never have found them. And microscopes have shown us worlds inside of our own bodies, too.
We learned that we've got tiny living things called microbes within us. When we digest our food, billions of tiny pals in our guts help us out. They're also on our skin, in our mouths, all over. Some keep us healthy, and others make us sick. And understanding these tiny beings has helped us stay healthier, too. Before microscopes, we sometimes missed the mark about what made people sick.
DOCTOR: [CLEARS THROAT] As your medieval doctor, I think the cause of your illness is an imbalance of liquids in your body. You probably have too much blood. That, or the planets.
MENAKA WILHELM: With microscopes, we've been able to understand that microbes, like bacteria, can make us sick, and we can fight them.
SPEAKER 1: Illnesses, they seem to be caused by tiny animalcules. But if we wash our hands, we can get rid of germs and stop them from spreading.
SPEAKER 2: And look, I found that this chemical stops germs from growing. We can use this as medicine to help people heal.
MENAKA WILHELM: And since the days of animalcules, microscopes have only gotten better at showing us the worlds within our own. Some microscopes even let us see the atoms that living things are made of. There are still plenty of living things that we haven't discovered, yet. So, sure, telescopes show us neat things, too, but we've only ever discovered life with one kind of scope, and it's when we've looked inward rather than out with our trusty microscopes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, a delightful argument there. Animalcules sounds so adorable, but life-changing to know about them. Yasmine, what stood out to you about Menaka's declaration of greatness?
YASMINE: First of all, I did not know that microbes are grumpy.
[LAUGHTER]
Second, it really reminded me of how we were talking about osmosis in science class this year. And we used microscopes on red onions to see the cells and some of the things inside of them, so that was really cool. And I like that experience with microscopes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very cool, indeed. Mark, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why microscopes are a big old joke. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
MARK POPINCHALK: Well, I want to point out that van Leeuwenhoek made one of the first microscopes, but one of the person who made one before that was Galileo. And do we think about Galileo's microscope? No, because he focused on the much cooler thing, the telescope. And it's cool to think about these tiny things, but also a little discomforting to know that there's millions of creatures crawling all over my skin.
And just to point out that your small is small, but the bigger things are much, much bigger. The kind of size of things that we look at in the telescope are much bigger compared--
MENAKA WILHELM: I think we should talk about Galileo's microscopes a lot more than we do. That's all.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm.
MARK POPINCHALK: Hmm.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's very nice. Yasmine, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic extra convincing? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Menaka and Mark, how are you two feeling so far?
MENAKA WILHELM: I'm feeling great. I think there's a lot of really great stuff to talk about. And the best things to talk about are really small. And also, I'm excited for the next round because I'd like everyone to note it's the Micro Round, not the Tele Round. Thank you.
MARK POPINCHALK: Well, if it was the Macro Round, this podcast would be a lot, lot longer. So we got to keep it short for a reason because--
MENAKA WILHELM: Sounds like a snooze fest.
MARK POPINCHALK: --we've got to move on past the small things as quick as we can.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: It is time for a quick break. Gather your specimens and get focused.
YASMINE: And we'll be right back with more of Smash Boom Best.
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, hey, debate buddies, I'm here with the exquisitely-dressed Todd Douglas.
TODD DOUGLAS: It's me, and I'm with the swellest smiler, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Aw, thanks, pal.
TODD DOUGLAS: Did you do something different with your hair? It looks divine.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Why, yes, I tried washing it. And Todd, your nails are so well-trimmed.
TODD DOUGLAS: Nail hygiene is my passion.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Aren't complements the best? But you know what's the worst? A logical fallacy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Those are bad arguments that hurt your case. And we saw a nasty fallacy dealt by one of the sweetest people in the world, the Complement Fairy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ooh, the Complement Fairy used the ad hominem fallacy. That's when you attack someone's character instead of their ideas. Let's listen.
[FILM ROLLING]
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: Hello, Sarah, your curls are a ray of sunshine. Mac, did I tell you I love your singing voice? Oh, Charlie, I heard you aced your math test. You are the smartest kid in the world.
CHARLIE: Thanks, Complement Fairy, but don't be silly.
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: Silly? Oh, heavens no. I'm just telling you how you're the most intelligent little tyke.
CHARLIE: Yeah, but how would if I'm the most intelligent? Have you surveyed all the little tykes in the world? Plus, how are you defining intelligence? Even education professionals struggle to define intelligence. Furthermore, what constitutes a little tyke or a kid for that matter? Are you comparing my intelligence to that of a teenager or a baby? Because that hardly seems fair.
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: [SIGHS] See? All of your quibbles just serve to emphasize how incomparably smart you are.
CHARLIE: Frankly, your lack of insight into the complement you gave me calls into question the authenticity of your complements in the past.
COMPLEMENT FAIRY: Well, of course you wouldn't agree you're the smartest kid because you're just a know-it-all, aren't you?
[BUZZER]
TODD DOUGLAS: Ouch! Not cool.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah, and even with the best intentions, you can still make a fallacy. By the way, the Complement Fairy did apologize to Charlie right after this. And trust me, it was the most sincere apology ever.
TODD DOUGLAS: Good to hear. But can we be sure it was the most sincere ever?
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Drop it, Todd. We'll see you next time on--
BOTH: State of Debate.
NARRATOR: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
[WHOOSHING SOUND]
MARTIAN: It's alien laundry day. While I wash my nose mufflers and tummy togas, I'll listen to a new podcast. [GIGGLES] How about--
[KEYPAD CLACKING]
Brains On, my favorite science podcast.
YASMINE: So this is Mark's nose?
MOLLY BLOOM: It's not actually as hairy as I would have thought.
YASMINE: Whoa, check out that big crowd of boogers.
MOLLY BLOOM: And they're cheering for something?
ANNOUNCER: Loogies and gentle-phlegm, boogs and germs, gather around. Today we will--
[BEEPS]
MARTIAN: Zorp! Signal down. [GROANS] Stay right there, tummy togas, must find Brains On now!
NARRATOR: Listen to Brains On wherever you get your podcasts.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MAN: Best.
WOMAN: Boom.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash. Smash.
WOMAN: Boom.
MAN: Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
YASMINE: And I'm your judge, Yasmine.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this adorable debate idea from Emmy.
EMMY: Pusheen versus Hello Kitty.
YASMINE: Aw. But meow will we choose?
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Emmy thinks should win.
YASMINE: And now it's back to our debate, telescopes versus microscopes.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round 2, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the Micro Round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Mark and Menaka, the prompt was "See Me." We told each debater to give us a monologue as something that is seen by either your microscope or telescope. Describe what it's like to be truly seen. Mark went first last time, so Menaka, you're up, give us your most magnificent microscope monologue.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ALGAE: Hi, hello. I see you peeping at me with your microscope. Me? I'm Algae, of course. Technically, I'm just one alga. But who's asking? My ancestors have been in pond water for three billion years. And you just show up one day with your little microscope lens, you scoop me from my home and expect me to spell everything out for you? Wait, sorry. That sounds very rude.
It's actually nice to meet a-- what were you called? A huge fan? A shoe bin? Oh, human. That's right. First of all, no, [LAUGHS] I'm not a teeny-tiny mermaid, though I do have green and glittering scales. Sometimes people mix me up with someone named Angie. I've never met her. We're different.
Thanks to your microscopes, you can learn all about how us, algae, were here before plants. Mm-hmm, they descended from us. We've been busy making half the oxygen on this planet. But also, we've wandered for all these billions of years if there was anything bigger than us out there. We just have never had like a mega scope to search with.
But here you are, a giant lumbering creature beyond our little pond world. I'm starstruck, but by your largeness, large-struck? Is that a thing? So, yeah, nice to meet you. But do you think when we're done here, maybe you could return me to my pond? It's just it's the only place I've ever known. I'm sure you understand.
MOLLY BLOOM: That glamorous alga really taking advantage of that close up. I love it. Mark, now it's your turn, tell us all about the terrific telescope.
ANDROMEDA: Hey. Hello? Tiny human, up here! It's me, Andromeda. I'm a galaxy, but not the galaxy you live in, a whole other galaxy, probably with millions of planets just like yours. Ka-blow! Did I just blow your mind? Well, that's what it must have felt like for you humans the first time you saw me. I mean, really saw me. Before telescopes, you just saw me as a blurry spot on the night sky, like a bug left over on a windshield.
But when you finally got your scopes working, you could see I was a whole lot more and nothing you'd ever seen before. You saw I got these glorious spiral arms. Flattered you finally noticed them. I've had to pump a lot of solar systems to build these bad boys. And boy, I felt so cool when you built bigger telescopes. And you kept looking, and you finally realized that I was full of stars going about their lives, just like the ones in your Milky Way, but over a million light years away.
Let me tell you, it's a long drive. Finally, finally, someone could see me for what I really am, a whole city of stars different from your own. Now I'm with friends who can see the real me because I'm shining here.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, we got to hear from a galaxy and that's not even ours? Incredible work, telescopes. Yasmine, what stood out to you about Mark and Menaka's micro rounds?
YASMINE: How different humans must have realized the world is when these things came around because I feel like lots of mythology and stuff surrounds these kinds of things because I feel like it's really mysterious, in a way, and I feel like it still is to people.
MOLLY BLOOM: That is a really, really good point. All right, Yasmine, it is time to award a point for this Micro Round, but don't tell us who it's going to.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yep.
[DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
MAN: Ah-hah! Hoo-hah!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round, where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called the Zoom Zoom Challenge. Each debater is given a series of short sound clips that are either slowed down or sped up, and they have to guess what the sound is based on the altered audio. In effect, each clue will microscope in or telescope out of the original sound. Debaters, does this make sense? Are you ready for your Sneak Attack?
MENAKA WILHELM: Yes, I'm very ready for this.
MARK POPINCHALK: In a big way.
MOLLY BLOOM: We're going to start with Mark. Here is your first clip.
[SLOWED ROOSTER CROWING]
MARK POPINCHALK: Mm-hmm.
MOLLY BLOOM: Any guesses, Mark?
MARK POPINCHALK: I'd have to wake up pretty early to guess that one, but I think it is a rooster.
MOLLY BLOOM: What's the answer?
[ROOSTER CROWING]
Nice, a sped-up rooster, you got it right. Menaka, it's your turn. Here's your first clip.
[SLOWED TRAIN WHISTLING]
What do you think?
MENAKA WILHELM: This one's probably slowed down. It sounds either like orchestral music or a chair scooting back against the floor in a very nice way.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. Let's get the answer.
[TRAIN WHISTLES]
MENAKA WILHELM: Oh, it's like a harmonica.
MARK POPINCHALK: Is it a train whistle?
MOLLY BLOOM: The answer is a train whistle.
MENAKA WILHELM: Oh, a train whistle.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Mark, you're up. Here's your second clip.
[SLOWED ZIPPING SOUND]
Hmm, another tricky one. What do you think?
MARK POPINCHALK: I think it's pretty cold in New York right now. I've got to zip up when I go outside. I think it's a zipper slowed down.
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's hear it in its normal speed.
[ZIPPING SOUND]
Correct again, Mark, it is a zipper. All right, Menaka, here is your second clip. Whoa, that was very fast.
[LAUGHING]
MENAKA WILHELM: I think we better hear that again.
[SPED UP KEYBOARD CLACKING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
What do you think?
MENAKA WILHELM: Well, this sounds like an ant scurrying by my microphone. But what could it be that a human could have recorded? Maybe it's someone tapping their fingers on a desk? Typing. Maybe it's typing on a keyboard sped up.
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's hear it at its normal speed.
[KEYBOARD CLACKING]
MENAKA WILHELM: Nice.
MOLLY BLOOM: Menaka, you are correct.
MENAKA WILHELM: Thank goodness.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work.
MARK POPINCHALK: I feel like yours have been harder than mine.
MENAKA WILHELM: I felt like, I don't know what that was. I was like, what?
MOLLY BLOOM: Mark, here is your final clip.
[SLOWED SODA CAN POPPING]
Oh, that was a whole story.
MARK POPINCHALK: Whoa.
MENAKA WILHELM: Yeah.
MARK POPINCHALK: This debate has gotten me pretty parched. I think it's somebody opening a beverage, like a little pop from a beverage.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent guess. Let's hear the answer.
[SODA CAN POPPING]
Mm, nice ears, Mark.
MENAKA WILHELM: Great work there.
MARK POPINCHALK: There we go.
MOLLY BLOOM: It was a soda can being opened. That was tricky. All right, Menaka, here is your final clip.
[SQUEAKING SOUND]
MENAKA WILHELM: This sounds like a bird.
MOLLY BLOOM: This one's so short. It does sound like a bird. All right, let's hear it again.
[SQUEAKING SOUND]
MENAKA WILHELM: I think I have to go, bird, but which one? I couldn't tell you.
MOLLY BLOOM: What do you think, a bird, an animal?
MENAKA WILHELM: A bird, a record scratch, I don't know.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: It's a DJ bird, a bird DJ.
MENAKA WILHELM: It's definitely an animal. I think it could be a bird DJ.
MOLLY BLOOM: Is that your final answer?
MENAKA WILHELM: I think it might be a different kind of animal. It might be a squirrel. That's my final answer, squirrel.
MOLLY BLOOM: Squirrel?
MENAKA WILHELM: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Here is what it sounds like at its normal speed.
[DOG BARKING]
[LAUGHING]
MARK POPINCHALK: What?
MENAKA WILHELM: A dog? Wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: The answer is a dog barking, specifically a Shih Tzu, which is honestly not that much bigger than a squirrel, so--
MENAKA WILHELM: I appreciate that, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: You were pretty close.
MENAKA WILHELM: I thought that it might be a monkey. I do really--
MOLLY BLOOM: That was really hard.
MENAKA WILHELM: Also, just like the idea that if you fast forward a dog, you get a DJ bird.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm going to get a Tzu and name him DJ Bird. Excellent work, Mark and Menaka. Now, Yasmine, you get to decide who gets the point for this fourth round. And again, it is completely subjective. So you can take into account the difficulty of the clips, how well people guessed the creativity on display.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yes, I think I have.
[DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect. Then it's time for our final round--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Menaka, let's hear your six words for the marvelous microscope.
MENAKA WILHELM: Worlds to see, right here, baby.
MOLLY BLOOM: Delightful. Mark, it is your turn, give us six words on the tremendous telescope.
MARK POPINCHALK: Telescope views bring universe to you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm, very nice. Yasmine, it is time to award a final point for the Final Six. Have you made your decision?
YASMINE: Yes, I have.
[DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boon Best?
YASMINE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drumroll, please. And the winner is--
YASMINE: Microscopes!
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow! Oh my goodness.
MENAKA WILHELM: Thank you, Yasmine. Also, you made the right choice.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Thank you for being correct, Menaka.
MARK POPINCHALK: You don't need a telescope or a microscope to see how heartbroken I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
MARK POPINCHALK: But microscopes did such a good job.
YASMINE: I'm sorry.
MARK POPINCHALK: It's totally fair.
YASMINE: So it was one by one point in the rebuttal. Originally, I had it on your side, and then I changed it.
MARK POPINCHALK: Oh, no.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, man. It was as close as close could be.
MENAKA WILHELM: Wow. Well, I mean, I thought you did a great job, Mark. I loved hearing about how binoculars are telescopes. I use those all the time.
MARK POPINCHALK: Well, Menaka, we actually are talking about very similar things because microscopes and telescopes use lenses to move light around to make things that you wouldn't be able to see. So, really, we're both kind of winning here, although you're the one who actually won, so congratulations.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Yasmine crowned microscopes the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
YASMINE: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by Molly Bloom--
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Josh Savageau, Garry O'Keeffe, and Firby Midgley, with sound design by--
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel--
RACHEL BREES: --and Rachel Brees.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: With fact checking by--
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team--
ROSIE DUPONT: Rosie DuPont.
RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.
ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.
NICO GONZALEZ WISLER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.
LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.
JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.
REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.
MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Mark, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
MARK POPINCHALK: I'll give a shout out to my professors in college who got me access to that telescope when I first started. Thank you to them for sending me on this journey.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. And how about you, Menaka, any special shout outs?
MENAKA WILHELM: I would like to shout out some of my favorite small things that inspired me as I prepared, which you don't need a microscope to see. One of them is Marcel the Shell with Shoes On. Another is the song All The Small Things by Blink 182. And lastly, I love those extra small Vaseline tubs that are shaped exactly like the big ones. Thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: And Yasmine, do you want to give any special thanks or shout outs?
YASMINE: To my friends at Tupper, my mom and my dad, and all the people who have bought me books about science and all different topics over the years.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's lovely. Before we go, let's check in and see who Emmy thinks should win, the Pusheen versus Hello Kitty debate.
EMMY: I know that it'll be Pusheen because like she is just adorable, and she is just so fluffy and cute. And she just comes in like mermaids and unicorns, everything. She's just so adorable.
YASMINE: Smash Boom Best is a non-profit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock-down, drag-out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And make sure to sign up for the Brains On Universe newsletter for bonus activities, reading recommendations, conversation starters, and more. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week. Bye-bye.
YASMINE: Bye. Ta-da-da.
MARK POPINCHALK: Good big-- I mean, goodbye.
[LAUGHING]
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, put you through the test
Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best
Ooh, better than the rest
It's the Smash Boom Best
You're the Smash Boom Best
MARK POPINCHALK: Thanks for pretending to remain impartial at this point.
YASMINE: I'm sorry.
[LAUGHING]
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