Today’s debate has lots of dice and is very nice. Get ready for a game night delight, because it’s Dungeons & Dragons vs. Monopoly! We’ve got Smash Boom Best Producer Anna Weggel ready to pass Go for team Monopoly and comedy writer Sam Suksiri is here to dominate for team Dungeons & Dragons! Who will be crowned the Smash Boom Best? Vote below for the team YOU think won!
Also… do you have your Smarty Pass yet? Get yours today for just $4/month (or $36/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um and Forever Ago. Visit www.smartypass.org to get your Smarty Pass today. As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly!
Audio Transcript
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ANNOUNCER: From the brains behind Brains on it's Smash Boom Best.
KID: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate has lots of dice and is very nice. Get ready for a game night delight because it's Dungeons and Dragons vs. Monopoly. We've got Smash Boom Best producer Anna Weagle ready to pass go for team Monopoly.
ANNA WEGGEL: Monopoly isn't fantasy, it's financial strategy.
MOLLY BLOOM: And comedy writer Sam Suksiri is here to dominate for team Dungeons and Dragons.
SAM SUKSIRI: Like a dice made out of granite. I'm ready to rock and roll.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Ariana from Elk River, Minnesota. Ariana loves to read. She once lived in China and she's been to Disneyland twice. Hi, Ariana.
ARIANA: Hi, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. So you've been to Disneyland a couple of times. What's your favorite thing about Disneyland?
ARIANA: Definitely the rides. I love the thrill of them and being able to be squished together with my family.
MOLLY BLOOM: Which is your favorite ride?
ARIANA: Oh, Goodness. oh, the Car ride. the Car ride was so much fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's from the movie Cars.
ARIANA: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: You just had your bat mitzvah and you also did a car related activity.
ARIANA: I did.
MOLLY BLOOM: For your bat mitzvah party. Tell us what you did. It sounds very fun.
ARIANA: I did whirlyball, right here in St. Paul, actually. And it's basically, you're on a go kart, and you have one-- I don't know what they're called. You have one of those scooper thingies, where you scoop up a ball, and then you throw it to other people, but they have a net and then you hit it with a net. And you get points.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sounds amazingly fun. How was it to play with your friends and family?
ARIANA: My friends were very chill about it. They're like, oh, yeah, let's do this. Because they were all strangers to each other. My family, on the other hand, was so ruthless. They would just like smack that ball out of your hand as fast as possible. We had to get so many new balls from the coach, because they would just be smashed by the time we were done.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fierce competitors. So speaking of fierce competitors, do you have any advice for our debaters today?
ARIANA: First of all, have fun. Second of all, impress me or else.
[LAUGHING]
- Oh, I'm scared. And excited.
SAM SUKSIRI: I got to roll an intimidation roll here.
[LAUGHING]
SAM SUKSIRI: Ooh, a 10.
MOLLY BLOOM: Will Ariana side with Anna or Sam? Only time will tell. But first, let's review the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds. The Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge Ariana will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
MOLLY BLOOM: Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. All right, Anna, Sam, and Ariana, are you ready?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
ARIANA: Yes.
SAM SUKSIRI: You can't tell this. I'm in full cosplay for this right now.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, no. And I have a top hat on.
SAM SUKSIRI: Very nice.
ARIANA: And I have a gavel.
[LAUGHING]
SAM SUKSIRI: We are definitely ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And Anna, you're up first. Tell us what--
SAM SUKSIRI: Wait, you flipped a coin? We didn't roll for this?
[LAUGHING]
ARIANA: That's so fair.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, good point. Anna, please tell us why monopoly is the game that can't be beat.
[GENTLE MUSIC]
KITTY: Hi, it's me, Kitty. I'm one of the newest monopoly tokens. Meow. Some people feel bad for the one I replaced. Sorry, not sorry, Tiny Iron. Hope you're not too steamed up about that one. But seriously, I'm honored to join a lineup so iconic. It's like I got inducted into the Board Game Hall of Fame. Or won an Oscar. Seriously, just give me an EGOT already.
KITTY: Monopoly is one of the most recognizable and beloved board games in the world, and now its status is elevated even more by bringing me on board.
[DOOR OPENS]
KITTY: Oh, look, someone's about to play Monopoly at their family reunion, and they're picking me as their token. If it weren't for Monopoly, what would those relatives even talk about?
[LAUGHING]
- Thank goodness for me.
ANNA WEGGEL: Kitty's right. A family reunion is the perfect place to play Monopoly. That's Grandma Rose over there, 94 years young.
GRANDMA ROSE: An astronomer discovered Pluto on my birthday in 1930s.
ANNA WEGGEL: Uncle Parsley, never remembers your name.
UNCLE PARSLEY: Hiya, Sammy? Swimmy? Is it Snuff?
ANNA WEGGEL: And there's little Marjorie. Eight years old and ready to take on the world.
MARJORIE: I'm running for mayor and I will win.
ANNA WEGGEL: What's the one thing that can unite this ragtag group of family members? Is it an overwhelming, hours long role playing game that requires players to meticulously navigate an expansive array of character statistics, rules and lore? No, it's Monopoly, of course.
[FANFARE PLAYING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Perfect for all ages, easy to learn and fun for all. And there's even children's versions of the game, like Monopoly Junior, Super Mario Monopoly and Frozen Monopoly. You didn't win the game? (SINGING) Let it go, Let it go.
ANNA WEGGEL: Part of Monopoly's beauty is its simplicity. It's a board game where players buy and trade properties. The goal is to bankrupt your opponents and make the most money. But there's some pretty special stuff going on beneath the surface. Right, Elizabeth Magie?
ELIZABETH MCGEE: You rang?
ANNA WEGGEL: I sure did. Care to explain how you came up with this game in 1903?
ELIZABETH MAGIE: Ah, yes. Back then, I called it the Landlord's Game. See, what you call a Monopoly happens when one person or company controls most or all of something, like all the railroads or utilities in the game. That is a very bad thing. It means that whoever is in control can set prices and rules that are unfair to others.
ELIZABETH MAGIE: In my original version, you could play the game in two ways. The greedy way, where everyone tries to grab as much land and money as possible, or the fair way, where players share everything. Sure, the rules have changed over the years, but we can learn so much from Monopoly to this day, like how money and power work in real life and how to make society fairer for everyone.
ANNA WEGGEL: Incredible.
ELIZABETH MAGIE: Yes, I am. Now back to my art project. I'm working on a bust of Abraham Lincoln. Now, that's a top hat to write home about. Toodles!
ANNA WEGGEL: The rules of Monopoly offer comfort and predictability and ensure fairness and justice. After all, the goal of the game is social harmony. There are no scary monsters, traps or haunted ruins. Plus, the stakes are low. No one will die or be eaten. And when you're done with a game of Monopoly, you're done. It's over. You can put the game to bed until the next time you want to play.
ANNA WEGGEL: With D&D It's never ending. I know a group of people who started playing four years ago, and guess what? They're still playing. They're stuck on a loop forever.
MAN: Help! We're stuck in this basement playing a game of D&D that just won't end. Can somebody please throw down some snacks?
ANNA WEGGEL: Monopoly brings friends and family together has a simple set of rules you can count on and teaches us about fairness, social justice, and how to manage our money. It's a game for the people, and I can't wait to see where the next 100 years of Monopoly takes us. Now, here's a bag of Skittles and a jug of HI-C for our thirsty and exhausted D&D friends.
[OBJECT FALLING]
MAN: Thank you. We should have picked Monopoly.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, Anna, building hotels on our hearts. So, Ariana, what stood out to you about Anna's Declaration of Greatness?
ARIANA: I loved how you said it was recognizable. I also loved how you said there was children's versions. So it's for every age, like Frozen. Who doesn't love Frozen? Like, that's amazing.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you for being such a good listener. And also, I would like to come to your next family reunion.
ARIANA: You should.
ANNA WEGGEL: And play board games with you, thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sam, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why this board game makes everyone bored. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
SAM SUKSIRI: Well, there's a dark side to Monopoly. You say it's a recognized game, but did you know that for almost 70 years Parker Brothers hid the original creator of Monopoly?
SAM SUKSIRI: Elizabeth Magie created it, but they gave credit to a man named Charles Darrow, for almost the entire existence of the game. It was only in 1973 when guess what? Parker Brothers was suing another indie game developer that the truth about Magie's creation even came to the light.
SAM SUKSIRI: Also, Magie created two versions of the game. One game was-- One version was supposed to be terribly boring, and that's the version that we play now. We don't play the original version that she created that was supposed to teach us about humanity and unity.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, listen, listen, Elizabeth Magie, that's how you pronounce it. Magie. She's here now, she's in the research. She's in the Google-- the Google results.
MOLLY BLOOM: The Googles.
ANNA WEGGEL: So she's here now. I mean, that is an unfortunate part of this history. But now we know. And it's our job to shout her name and to teach everyone who she is and how to pronounce her last name correctly.
SAM SUKSIRI: Look, it's fine. It's a fine thing to praise the glories of the dead. But during her life, Magie spent more money fighting Monopoly to get the rights, to get the credit she deserved than she ever made off of the game itself.
ANNA WEGGEL: And to this day, people are still mispronouncing her last name.
SAM SUKSIRI: I'm sorry.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sam.
SAM SUKSIRI: Magie. I'm just going to go by Magie now, you can call me Magie.
SAM SUKSIRI: Sam, please tell us why D&D is the place to be.
SAM SUKSIRI: Dungeons and Dragons is a role playing game, which means you use your own smarts and imagination to solve problems, defeat enemies and save the day. To start, you create a completely custom character, like a magic wielding warlock, or a brave paladin, even a goofy bard.
BARD: (SINGING) Let me sing you the song of wonder what
SAM SUKSIRI: Every character has their unique strengths and special abilities. You play with your friends and something called an adventuring party. Together, the party sets out on quest, created by the all powerful dungeon master.
[EVIL LAUGH]
SAM SUKSIRI: Actually, the dungeon master isn't scary. It's also one of your friends, and they're like the game's storyteller and coach. The dungeon master is the one who invents the quests for the players to go on. That could be a mission to retake a castle from an evil dragon.
[DRAGON GROWLING]
SAM SUKSIRI: But it could be said in any kind of world, like a Star Wars world, where you lead a squadron to battle the empire, or in a mash up world of superheroes where the Avengers battle the Justice League.
[EPIC MUSIC]
AVENGER MEMBER: Avengers, assemble.
BATMAN: Justice League justice, I'm Batman.
SAM SUKSIRI: And here's what makes D&D so special. How the game goes is up to you. That's because you aren't limited to a few possibilities like you are in Monopoly. I mean, what if instead of building hotels, you want to build a theme park.
[PEOPLE SCREAMING]
SAM SUKSIRI: Or instead of saying stuck in jail, you want to pick the lock and escape to your hideout on Baltic Avenue.
[DOOR OPENS]
MAN: I'm free.
WOMAN: Sorry, you can't do that. This is Monopoly.
MAN: Aw.
SAM SUKSIRI: But games like Dungeons and Dragons are all about using your imagination to think up new ways to play. When you're faced with a problem like an angry troll, you can decide to fight it, befriend it. Or maybe put it to sleep with your deep knowledge of tax codes. It's up to you.
SAM SUKSIRI: In fact, it was this kind of creative thinking that inspired the game in the first place. In the 1970s, two friends named Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax would play tabletop war simulation games. That's where you command an army to re-enact historic battles. But of course, all the armies are made up of miniature toy soldiers.
SAM SUKSIRI: Normally, you would try to reenact a battle, putting yourself in the role of a general leading their army. But on one fateful day, Gary Gygax tried something different. He wanted to give the other players something unexpected. So he had a character suddenly summon a fireball and wipe out a whole army.
SAM SUKSIRI: Obviously, that was not a historical recreation, but it was imaginative and everyone loved it. Soon players around the world were going off on their own original quest, set in fantasy worlds with dragons and wizards and magic. And thus, Dungeons and Dragons was born.
SAM SUKSIRI: Unlike Monopoly, where at the end all the pieces go back in the box, Dungeons and Dragons is an ongoing game.
SAM SUKSIRI: You could play out a quest over weeks. Your characters develop and gain abilities along the way. And because you play with the same friends over the years, your real life friendships also grow. During the pandemic, many people who couldn't meet in person played together online, which was fun and helped them stay in touch with their friends. And the game is so fun. People who don't even play love to watch experts play Dungeons and Dragons.
SAM SUKSIRI: In fact, Dungeons and Dragons games have sold out Madison Square Garden.
[APPLAUDING]
SAM SUKSIRI: I'm sure 1,000 years from now, people will still be gathering around a table to use their imaginations to be someone else and to adventure with their friends in a far off world.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, rolling his way straight to the top. Amazing work, Sam. Ariana, what stood out to you about Sam's Declaration of Greatness?
ARIANA: There was a lot. I love how you said that you can really use your imagination and make up whatever you want to, because I know a lot of kids my age love to make up rules and do their own kind of thing, and that's exactly the kind of game that they would want to play.
ARIANA: I love how you said friendships can grow, because a lot of my friends and including me, have trouble connecting with other people. So when you can connect over a board game like D&D, that's really cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work. Well, Anna, it is time for your rebuttal. Please tell us why this tabletop game is a table flop game. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, that was a critical fail. It was a 20 sided dud. These adventuring parties might be creative and exciting, but sometimes we need breaks from imagination. My three-year-old daughter, she doesn't let me do anything without pretending like I'm her teacher and we're in a cave and it's raining and we're on a boat in the ocean. I want to live in reality sometimes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Plus, Thank you, Sam, for acknowledging how long D&D lasts. Did the longest ever recorded game of D&D lasted 36 years? It ran continuously from 1972 to 2008 when the creator died. He had to die, Ariana for it to end.
ARIANA: That, wow. I have no words. He had to die?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sam, would you like to respond?
SAM SUKSIRI: I also have no words. I just heard a flurry of, of--
ANNA WEGGEL: Of facts?
SAM SUKSIRI: Sharp, sharp. I don't know. I don't know about facts. OK. Yeah. I mean, I guess if you don't want to use your imagination, yeah, if you need a break from using your imagination-- I just don't know why you would say want to escape to the real world by going to Monopoly. Monopoly doesn't represent the real world unless you're part of the 1%.
ANNA WEGGEL: Well, it has rules that you can lean on and it's comforting, etcetera.
SAM SUKSIRI: Is this not, and I could be wrong, is this not how it typically goes? You get a bunch of people around to play it, and then as the evening goes on, more and more players get eliminated until it's just one person left at the table, alone, missing out on all the other family.
ANNA WEGGEL: It's nice. It built in a long time, a nice break from the rest of the family. Perfect.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Ariana, they've given you a lot to think about, but it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the Declaration of Greatness that you like best. And one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you laugh? Was another team's argument unbeatable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: Aye, aye, Captain.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Sam and Anna, how are you two feeling so far?
ANNA WEGGEL: I'm being too aggressive and I need to be--
SAM SUKSIRI: Come on. No, no, no, no.
ANNA WEGGEL: I need to be nice.
[LAUGHING]
SAM SUKSIRI: Hey, we're role playing. I don't know if you're familiar with role playing, if coming from Monopoly, but you can be aggressive. You can play an aggressive character. It does not make you a bad guy in real life.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, I tip my top hat to you, sir.
SAM SUKSIRI: Why, thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: It is time for a quick break. Count your gold and grab your giant top hat.
ARIANA: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
WOMAN: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage, rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: What's up? What's up? What's up? It's me, debate dude, with a good attitude, Taylor Lincoln.
TODD DOUGLAS: And I'm debate dynamo, Todd Douglas here to tell you exactly what is up.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: So, Todd, tell us what is up?
TODD DOUGLAS: What is up is that we've just found another logical fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, Jeez. Don't they know logical fallacies are mistakes that make your argument weaker? What is with people?
TODD DOUGLAS: What is with people, indeed. But this time the people are bears. And this time they're using the anecdotal evidence fallacy. That's when you make an argument based on something that happened to you personally. Let's take a listen.
[MOVIE PROJECTOR RUNNING]
BABY BEAR: Mama, can I have some porridge, please?
MAMA BEAR: No, of course not.
BABY BEAR: But why? Porridge is my favorite.
MAMA BEAR: Last time I made porridge, a little blonde girl broke into our house, destroyed your chair, messed up our nicely made beds and got her mouth germs all over our porridge spoons. So no, I will not be making porridge ever again. Porridge brings trouble.
BABY BEAR: That happened once. We've had porridge so many times.
MAMA BEAR: Nope, sorry. Never again. Porridge is bad news.
[GENTLE MUSIC]
[BUZZING]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Wow, that mama bear definitely does not know what is up.
TODD DOUGLAS: She definitely does not. I understand why she might be upset about Goldilocks messing with her stuff, but it wasn't the porridges fault.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Indeed, something that happened just once is not enough evidence to base an argument on.
TODD DOUGLAS: And that is what's up. We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
ANNOUNCER: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
ROBOT: Entering Brains On Universe.
KID: To find my favorite podcasts.
ROBOT: Brains On.
KID: Smash Boom Best. Forever ago.
ROBOT: Picking up signal. Forever Ago, the history show hosted by Joy Dolo.
JOY DOLO: Welcome to--
[FANFARRE PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Joy's hall of stalls. Every door in this hall leads to a different model of toilet from throughout history. You want a potty like it's 1999.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
JOY DOLO: Right this way.
ROBOT: Zorp! Where did the signal go? Must find Forever Ago now.
ANNOUNCER: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ARIANA: And I'm your judge, Ariana.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this artistic debate idea from Brinley.
BRINLEY: My name is Brinley and my Smash Boom Best debate idea is photography versus portrait.
ARIANA: Wow, what an eye catching debate.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Brinley thinks should win.
ARIANA: And now it's back to our debate Dungeons and Dragons versus Monopoly.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the Micro Round. For the Micro Round challenge. Each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Anna and Sam, the prompt was Jumanji. In this Micro Round, you're transported into the world of your game. Share what the world looks like when your side has become reality. Anna went first last time. So, Sam, you're up. Take us inside Dungeons and Dragons.
[SCREAMING]
PLAYER: Oh, what happened?
WARLOCK TIM: Greetings I am the great and powerful Warlock Tim. And I've summoned you to the realm of Dungeons and Dragons because we need you to save us from the nine headed dragon, Balinor.
[DRAGON GROWLING]
PLAYER: I'm in a real life D&D game?
WARLOCK TIM: This castle is our last stand. If the dragon breaks through these walls, we're doomed. Doomed, doomed.
PLAYER: OK. First, I'll need a few things. Water.
WARLOCK TIM: I summon the purest glacial waters of the northern realms.
[WATER SPLASHING]
PLAYER: Hay seeds.
WARLOCK TIM: A handful of the finest-- Wait, wait. Hay seed? What sort of potion are you concocting?
PLAYER: I'm planting a garden.
WARLOCK TIM: This is no time for gardening. Here, take this.
[CONJURING MAGIC]
WARLOCK TIM: The legendary lance of Sir Lancelot and save us from the beast.
PLAYER: Good idea.
[DIGGING]
WARLOCK TIM: What are you doing?
PLAYER: I'm using the spear to loosen and aerate the dirt.
WARLOCK TIM: But the dragon. What about the dragon?
- This is D&D. My character is a botanist. I specialize in plants, not fighting. So I'm using my unique characteristics and my imagination to formulate a strategy to stop the dragon.
[DRAGON APPROACHING]
[DRAGON GROWLING]
PLAYER: Now I'll use my plant growth spell to make the hay instantly grow.
[HAY GROWING]
PLAYER: OK, Warlock Tim, summon a gust of wind to blow all the pollen off of the hay and onto the dragon.
[WIND BLOWING]
[SNEEZING]
- I happen to know that dragons have terrible allergies, and with nine heads, Balinor is going to need a lot of tissues.
[SNEEZING]
WARLOCK TIM: Oh, clever chosen one. You've saved us all.
MOLLY BLOOM: Didn't know botany could be so fierce.
ANNA WEGGEL: Scary.
MOLLY BLOOM: Incredible. Anna, it's your turn. Tell us what happens when Monopoly becomes real.
[THUNDER CRASHING]
BECCA: The weather is gross. Let's just play Monopoly.
GIRL: Good idea, Becca. I've got boardwalk, which means you're going to lose
BECCA: Not if I build a hotel first.
[GENTLE MUSIC]
GIRL: Mr. Monopoly? The mustachioed mascot?
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: Mr. Monopoly was my father, call me Milburn Pennybags.
BECCA: What are you doing here?
- You know, this and that. Twirling my luxurious whiskers, imparting knowledge unto you. Just typical mascot stuff. Now, you must understand, true wealth comes from fairness and strategy, not just from owning it all. Now, please pass me the orange crunchy snacks.
BECCA: Cheetos? Wait. Can old timey mascots eat cheetos?
[CRUNCHING]
- Yuck. I regret that bite. But you know, in games and in life, sometimes you need to press through challenges and keep going, even when things get yucky.
GIRL: Wow, we really have so much to learn about life from Monopoly.
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: I've been waiting for someone to say that my whole life.
GIRL: Wait. Why?
[INTENSE MUSIC]
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: Because now that you've said the magic words, I can finally retire.
[MAGIC SOUND]
GIRL: Becca, you have a white mustache.
BECCA: I do?
GIRL: Now a top hat. Wait, and are you holding a cane?
BECCA: Oh, my gosh. I'm the new Mr. Monopoly.
GIRL: You're famous.
BECCA: Hang on. Does this mean I'm only going to wear one outfit and have this luxurious white mustache for the rest of my life? I'm only 12.
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: Ta-ta. Hee, hee, ho, ho.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: I loved it. It was completely bonkers. Ariana, what stood out to you about Anna and Sam's Micro Rounds?
ARIANA: First of all, I want to have a shout out to the sound effects because those were amazing. I loved them so much. Second of all, Sam, I mean, Mr. Magie.
SAM SUKSIRI: Oh, yeah.
ARIANA: I loved again how you brought up imagination. And you can use whatever and make up whatever you need to. You don't need to actually fight. You can build a garden instead. Why fight when you can plant?
SAM SUKSIRI: Absolutely.
ARIANA: And Tim, loved Tim. He was very energetic.
SAM SUKSIRI: (WARLOCK'S VOICE) Thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Genuinely did not know who that was.
ARIANA: And Anna, I also loved how you pressed through challenges, because that's a lot of kids can learn from that, especially me. I also loved how you do, how you talked about fairness and strategy, because again, I and some people I know can learn from fairness and strategy, because we don't have all the fairness in the world. So some kids need to learn about that.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, excellent work, both of you. Ariana, I'm sorry you have to make this decision, but only one of them can get a point for this round. The criteria are completely subjective and completely up to you. Did someone make it sound like their game was a fun place to be? Did you learned something new? Did you feel something? Award your point, but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic Then it's time for our third round. The super stealthy--
WOMAN: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called Sentence by Sentence. In this game, debaters each get four sentences to build a story together that's about both of their sides. They'll go back and forth until all eight sentences are used up and the story is complete.
MOLLY BLOOM: Debaters, does this make sense?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes
SAM SUKSIRI: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. We're going to start with you, Anna. So let's hear the first sentence. In this sentence by sentence story.
ANNA WEGGEL: Young Elizabeth Magie didn't have a friend in the world.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your turn, Sam.
SAM SUKSIRI: She approached a humble hotel, but didn't have enough rent.
ANNA WEGGEL: Clearly, the best thing to do was to introduce herself to another young woman across the lobby.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sam, your turn.
SAM SUKSIRI: 'Oh, a fellow traveler,' said the woman as she pulled back the hood of her cloak.
[LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Elizabeth Magie said, 'I don't know what kind of magical, mystical powers you have, but would you be up for a sensible game called the Landlord's Game?'
SAM SUKSIRI: 'Care to make it more interesting?' she said, pulling a bag of jewels from a chest.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: The suspense. All right. This is your last line now, Anna. Please make it count.
ANNA WEGGEL: Elizabeth Magie said, 'I'll take your jewels and use them to pay rent, while we play my game The Landlord's Game.'
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sam, your final line in this riveting story.
SAM SUKSIRI: Wow, you really do have to force people to play your game.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Really excellent work, both of you. Ariana, this time to award a point. Please think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect Then it's time for our final round.
WOMAN: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Sam, let's hear your six words for Dungeons and Dragons.
SAM SUKSIRI: If anything's possible, what would you?
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work. All right, Anna. It is time for your six words for Monopoly.
ANNA WEGGEL: Monopoly has universal appeal, Elizabeth Magie!
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Ariana, please award a final point for this Final Six. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
ARIANA: I think I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Drum roll, please. And the winner is--
ARIANA: Dungeons and Dragons!
SAM SUKSIRI: Oh.
ANNA WEGGEL: That can't be right. It can't be right. Recount.
SAM SUKSIRI: It seemed like it was impossible.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. So, Ariana, what was your favorite part of today's debate?
ARIANA: Oh, definitely the Sneak Attack. That was so much fun. Mr. Magie, your sound effects, though. 'Oh, you really have to force people, interesting'.
SAM SUKSIRI: First of all, I really want to thank you for correcting me. I don't think I've heard Elizabeth Magie's name said out loud. I've only read it. So thank you so much. Monopoly is a favorite game of mine in my family. And so it was great to hear your defense of it. And really great to hear a positive thing about it.
SAM SUKSIRI: Like I said, I like playing Monopoly, but I feel like everybody kind of has this like, ugh, we're going to be playing Monopoly. So it is really great to hear somebody defend it, because if I wasn't defending Dungeons and Dragons and I would absolutely defend Monopoly.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, I feel the same way. And it was so fun to live in the world of Dungeons and Dragons, I have played it before. It was very scary. The one time I played it, but 99% of my friends play it religiously, every single week. And so they are-- They were horrified to hear that I was defending against it.
ANNA WEGGEL: But I loved the sound design. I loved living in the world of IT, and it was just really fun. You did a great job.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Ariana crown Dungeons and Dragons, the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ARIANA: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Alex Simpson with sound design by Arom Woldeslassie. Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team. Rosie DuPont, Rachel briese, Anna Goldfield. Nico Gonzalez. Wisler, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humbert, Jess Miller, Joshua Ray, Marc Sanchez and Charlotte Travor.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Anna, is anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you so much, Ariana, for coming back to Judge. It was so fun to hang out with you today. And thank you to the spirit, the ghost spirit of Elizabeth Magie. It's probably never been talked about this much on a podcast before.
MOLLY BLOOM: How about you, Sam. Any special shout outs?
SAM SUKSIRI: Yeah, So if you want to learn more about Dungeons and Dragons, a terrific book I read to prepare for this was Of Dice And Men by David M. Ewalt. Ewalt? I can't-- I've only read his name. And then thank you to all the dungeon masters out there who make the games happen. They do so much work and there wouldn't be a Dungeons and Dragons community without the dungeon masters holding it all together.
MOLLY BLOOM: And how about you, ariana? Any special thanks or shout outs?
ARIANA: I want to thank everybody here for inviting me back. It's so great to be back. I also want to give a shout out to my mom and my dad for driving me everywhere. And also to my brother for supporting me.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's so nice. Before we go, let's check in and see who Brindley thinks should win the photography versus portraits debate.
BRINLEY: I think that portraits would win, because they're really fun to paint.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock down drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line.
MOLLY BLOOM: And make sure to subscribe to Brains On Universe on YouTube where you can watch animated versions of some of your favorite episodes. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week.
ARIANA: Au revoir.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bye.
[THEME MUSIC]
ARIANA: I can't believe you didn't roll a 10. I mean, 20. Like what? Maybe I should give it to Monopoly.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: It's a technicality.
KID: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate has lots of dice and is very nice. Get ready for a game night delight because it's Dungeons and Dragons vs. Monopoly. We've got Smash Boom Best producer Anna Weagle ready to pass go for team Monopoly.
ANNA WEGGEL: Monopoly isn't fantasy, it's financial strategy.
MOLLY BLOOM: And comedy writer Sam Suksiri is here to dominate for team Dungeons and Dragons.
SAM SUKSIRI: Like a dice made out of granite. I'm ready to rock and roll.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Ariana from Elk River, Minnesota. Ariana loves to read. She once lived in China and she's been to Disneyland twice. Hi, Ariana.
ARIANA: Hi, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. So you've been to Disneyland a couple of times. What's your favorite thing about Disneyland?
ARIANA: Definitely the rides. I love the thrill of them and being able to be squished together with my family.
MOLLY BLOOM: Which is your favorite ride?
ARIANA: Oh, Goodness. oh, the Car ride. the Car ride was so much fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's from the movie Cars.
ARIANA: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: You just had your bat mitzvah and you also did a car related activity.
ARIANA: I did.
MOLLY BLOOM: For your bat mitzvah party. Tell us what you did. It sounds very fun.
ARIANA: I did whirlyball, right here in St. Paul, actually. And it's basically, you're on a go kart, and you have one-- I don't know what they're called. You have one of those scooper thingies, where you scoop up a ball, and then you throw it to other people, but they have a net and then you hit it with a net. And you get points.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sounds amazingly fun. How was it to play with your friends and family?
ARIANA: My friends were very chill about it. They're like, oh, yeah, let's do this. Because they were all strangers to each other. My family, on the other hand, was so ruthless. They would just like smack that ball out of your hand as fast as possible. We had to get so many new balls from the coach, because they would just be smashed by the time we were done.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fierce competitors. So speaking of fierce competitors, do you have any advice for our debaters today?
ARIANA: First of all, have fun. Second of all, impress me or else.
[LAUGHING]
- Oh, I'm scared. And excited.
SAM SUKSIRI: I got to roll an intimidation roll here.
[LAUGHING]
SAM SUKSIRI: Ooh, a 10.
MOLLY BLOOM: Will Ariana side with Anna or Sam? Only time will tell. But first, let's review the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds. The Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge Ariana will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
MOLLY BLOOM: Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. All right, Anna, Sam, and Ariana, are you ready?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
ARIANA: Yes.
SAM SUKSIRI: You can't tell this. I'm in full cosplay for this right now.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, no. And I have a top hat on.
SAM SUKSIRI: Very nice.
ARIANA: And I have a gavel.
[LAUGHING]
SAM SUKSIRI: We are definitely ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And Anna, you're up first. Tell us what--
SAM SUKSIRI: Wait, you flipped a coin? We didn't roll for this?
[LAUGHING]
ARIANA: That's so fair.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, good point. Anna, please tell us why monopoly is the game that can't be beat.
[GENTLE MUSIC]
KITTY: Hi, it's me, Kitty. I'm one of the newest monopoly tokens. Meow. Some people feel bad for the one I replaced. Sorry, not sorry, Tiny Iron. Hope you're not too steamed up about that one. But seriously, I'm honored to join a lineup so iconic. It's like I got inducted into the Board Game Hall of Fame. Or won an Oscar. Seriously, just give me an EGOT already.
KITTY: Monopoly is one of the most recognizable and beloved board games in the world, and now its status is elevated even more by bringing me on board.
[DOOR OPENS]
KITTY: Oh, look, someone's about to play Monopoly at their family reunion, and they're picking me as their token. If it weren't for Monopoly, what would those relatives even talk about?
[LAUGHING]
- Thank goodness for me.
ANNA WEGGEL: Kitty's right. A family reunion is the perfect place to play Monopoly. That's Grandma Rose over there, 94 years young.
GRANDMA ROSE: An astronomer discovered Pluto on my birthday in 1930s.
ANNA WEGGEL: Uncle Parsley, never remembers your name.
UNCLE PARSLEY: Hiya, Sammy? Swimmy? Is it Snuff?
ANNA WEGGEL: And there's little Marjorie. Eight years old and ready to take on the world.
MARJORIE: I'm running for mayor and I will win.
ANNA WEGGEL: What's the one thing that can unite this ragtag group of family members? Is it an overwhelming, hours long role playing game that requires players to meticulously navigate an expansive array of character statistics, rules and lore? No, it's Monopoly, of course.
[FANFARE PLAYING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Perfect for all ages, easy to learn and fun for all. And there's even children's versions of the game, like Monopoly Junior, Super Mario Monopoly and Frozen Monopoly. You didn't win the game? (SINGING) Let it go, Let it go.
ANNA WEGGEL: Part of Monopoly's beauty is its simplicity. It's a board game where players buy and trade properties. The goal is to bankrupt your opponents and make the most money. But there's some pretty special stuff going on beneath the surface. Right, Elizabeth Magie?
ELIZABETH MCGEE: You rang?
ANNA WEGGEL: I sure did. Care to explain how you came up with this game in 1903?
ELIZABETH MAGIE: Ah, yes. Back then, I called it the Landlord's Game. See, what you call a Monopoly happens when one person or company controls most or all of something, like all the railroads or utilities in the game. That is a very bad thing. It means that whoever is in control can set prices and rules that are unfair to others.
ELIZABETH MAGIE: In my original version, you could play the game in two ways. The greedy way, where everyone tries to grab as much land and money as possible, or the fair way, where players share everything. Sure, the rules have changed over the years, but we can learn so much from Monopoly to this day, like how money and power work in real life and how to make society fairer for everyone.
ANNA WEGGEL: Incredible.
ELIZABETH MAGIE: Yes, I am. Now back to my art project. I'm working on a bust of Abraham Lincoln. Now, that's a top hat to write home about. Toodles!
ANNA WEGGEL: The rules of Monopoly offer comfort and predictability and ensure fairness and justice. After all, the goal of the game is social harmony. There are no scary monsters, traps or haunted ruins. Plus, the stakes are low. No one will die or be eaten. And when you're done with a game of Monopoly, you're done. It's over. You can put the game to bed until the next time you want to play.
ANNA WEGGEL: With D&D It's never ending. I know a group of people who started playing four years ago, and guess what? They're still playing. They're stuck on a loop forever.
MAN: Help! We're stuck in this basement playing a game of D&D that just won't end. Can somebody please throw down some snacks?
ANNA WEGGEL: Monopoly brings friends and family together has a simple set of rules you can count on and teaches us about fairness, social justice, and how to manage our money. It's a game for the people, and I can't wait to see where the next 100 years of Monopoly takes us. Now, here's a bag of Skittles and a jug of HI-C for our thirsty and exhausted D&D friends.
[OBJECT FALLING]
MAN: Thank you. We should have picked Monopoly.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, Anna, building hotels on our hearts. So, Ariana, what stood out to you about Anna's Declaration of Greatness?
ARIANA: I loved how you said it was recognizable. I also loved how you said there was children's versions. So it's for every age, like Frozen. Who doesn't love Frozen? Like, that's amazing.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you for being such a good listener. And also, I would like to come to your next family reunion.
ARIANA: You should.
ANNA WEGGEL: And play board games with you, thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sam, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why this board game makes everyone bored. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
SAM SUKSIRI: Well, there's a dark side to Monopoly. You say it's a recognized game, but did you know that for almost 70 years Parker Brothers hid the original creator of Monopoly?
SAM SUKSIRI: Elizabeth Magie created it, but they gave credit to a man named Charles Darrow, for almost the entire existence of the game. It was only in 1973 when guess what? Parker Brothers was suing another indie game developer that the truth about Magie's creation even came to the light.
SAM SUKSIRI: Also, Magie created two versions of the game. One game was-- One version was supposed to be terribly boring, and that's the version that we play now. We don't play the original version that she created that was supposed to teach us about humanity and unity.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, listen, listen, Elizabeth Magie, that's how you pronounce it. Magie. She's here now, she's in the research. She's in the Google-- the Google results.
MOLLY BLOOM: The Googles.
ANNA WEGGEL: So she's here now. I mean, that is an unfortunate part of this history. But now we know. And it's our job to shout her name and to teach everyone who she is and how to pronounce her last name correctly.
SAM SUKSIRI: Look, it's fine. It's a fine thing to praise the glories of the dead. But during her life, Magie spent more money fighting Monopoly to get the rights, to get the credit she deserved than she ever made off of the game itself.
ANNA WEGGEL: And to this day, people are still mispronouncing her last name.
SAM SUKSIRI: I'm sorry.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sam.
SAM SUKSIRI: Magie. I'm just going to go by Magie now, you can call me Magie.
SAM SUKSIRI: Sam, please tell us why D&D is the place to be.
SAM SUKSIRI: Dungeons and Dragons is a role playing game, which means you use your own smarts and imagination to solve problems, defeat enemies and save the day. To start, you create a completely custom character, like a magic wielding warlock, or a brave paladin, even a goofy bard.
BARD: (SINGING) Let me sing you the song of wonder what
SAM SUKSIRI: Every character has their unique strengths and special abilities. You play with your friends and something called an adventuring party. Together, the party sets out on quest, created by the all powerful dungeon master.
[EVIL LAUGH]
SAM SUKSIRI: Actually, the dungeon master isn't scary. It's also one of your friends, and they're like the game's storyteller and coach. The dungeon master is the one who invents the quests for the players to go on. That could be a mission to retake a castle from an evil dragon.
[DRAGON GROWLING]
SAM SUKSIRI: But it could be said in any kind of world, like a Star Wars world, where you lead a squadron to battle the empire, or in a mash up world of superheroes where the Avengers battle the Justice League.
[EPIC MUSIC]
AVENGER MEMBER: Avengers, assemble.
BATMAN: Justice League justice, I'm Batman.
SAM SUKSIRI: And here's what makes D&D so special. How the game goes is up to you. That's because you aren't limited to a few possibilities like you are in Monopoly. I mean, what if instead of building hotels, you want to build a theme park.
[PEOPLE SCREAMING]
SAM SUKSIRI: Or instead of saying stuck in jail, you want to pick the lock and escape to your hideout on Baltic Avenue.
[DOOR OPENS]
MAN: I'm free.
WOMAN: Sorry, you can't do that. This is Monopoly.
MAN: Aw.
SAM SUKSIRI: But games like Dungeons and Dragons are all about using your imagination to think up new ways to play. When you're faced with a problem like an angry troll, you can decide to fight it, befriend it. Or maybe put it to sleep with your deep knowledge of tax codes. It's up to you.
SAM SUKSIRI: In fact, it was this kind of creative thinking that inspired the game in the first place. In the 1970s, two friends named Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax would play tabletop war simulation games. That's where you command an army to re-enact historic battles. But of course, all the armies are made up of miniature toy soldiers.
SAM SUKSIRI: Normally, you would try to reenact a battle, putting yourself in the role of a general leading their army. But on one fateful day, Gary Gygax tried something different. He wanted to give the other players something unexpected. So he had a character suddenly summon a fireball and wipe out a whole army.
SAM SUKSIRI: Obviously, that was not a historical recreation, but it was imaginative and everyone loved it. Soon players around the world were going off on their own original quest, set in fantasy worlds with dragons and wizards and magic. And thus, Dungeons and Dragons was born.
SAM SUKSIRI: Unlike Monopoly, where at the end all the pieces go back in the box, Dungeons and Dragons is an ongoing game.
SAM SUKSIRI: You could play out a quest over weeks. Your characters develop and gain abilities along the way. And because you play with the same friends over the years, your real life friendships also grow. During the pandemic, many people who couldn't meet in person played together online, which was fun and helped them stay in touch with their friends. And the game is so fun. People who don't even play love to watch experts play Dungeons and Dragons.
SAM SUKSIRI: In fact, Dungeons and Dragons games have sold out Madison Square Garden.
[APPLAUDING]
SAM SUKSIRI: I'm sure 1,000 years from now, people will still be gathering around a table to use their imaginations to be someone else and to adventure with their friends in a far off world.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, rolling his way straight to the top. Amazing work, Sam. Ariana, what stood out to you about Sam's Declaration of Greatness?
ARIANA: There was a lot. I love how you said that you can really use your imagination and make up whatever you want to, because I know a lot of kids my age love to make up rules and do their own kind of thing, and that's exactly the kind of game that they would want to play.
ARIANA: I love how you said friendships can grow, because a lot of my friends and including me, have trouble connecting with other people. So when you can connect over a board game like D&D, that's really cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work. Well, Anna, it is time for your rebuttal. Please tell us why this tabletop game is a table flop game. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, that was a critical fail. It was a 20 sided dud. These adventuring parties might be creative and exciting, but sometimes we need breaks from imagination. My three-year-old daughter, she doesn't let me do anything without pretending like I'm her teacher and we're in a cave and it's raining and we're on a boat in the ocean. I want to live in reality sometimes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Plus, Thank you, Sam, for acknowledging how long D&D lasts. Did the longest ever recorded game of D&D lasted 36 years? It ran continuously from 1972 to 2008 when the creator died. He had to die, Ariana for it to end.
ARIANA: That, wow. I have no words. He had to die?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sam, would you like to respond?
SAM SUKSIRI: I also have no words. I just heard a flurry of, of--
ANNA WEGGEL: Of facts?
SAM SUKSIRI: Sharp, sharp. I don't know. I don't know about facts. OK. Yeah. I mean, I guess if you don't want to use your imagination, yeah, if you need a break from using your imagination-- I just don't know why you would say want to escape to the real world by going to Monopoly. Monopoly doesn't represent the real world unless you're part of the 1%.
ANNA WEGGEL: Well, it has rules that you can lean on and it's comforting, etcetera.
SAM SUKSIRI: Is this not, and I could be wrong, is this not how it typically goes? You get a bunch of people around to play it, and then as the evening goes on, more and more players get eliminated until it's just one person left at the table, alone, missing out on all the other family.
ANNA WEGGEL: It's nice. It built in a long time, a nice break from the rest of the family. Perfect.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Ariana, they've given you a lot to think about, but it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the Declaration of Greatness that you like best. And one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you laugh? Was another team's argument unbeatable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: Aye, aye, Captain.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Sam and Anna, how are you two feeling so far?
ANNA WEGGEL: I'm being too aggressive and I need to be--
SAM SUKSIRI: Come on. No, no, no, no.
ANNA WEGGEL: I need to be nice.
[LAUGHING]
SAM SUKSIRI: Hey, we're role playing. I don't know if you're familiar with role playing, if coming from Monopoly, but you can be aggressive. You can play an aggressive character. It does not make you a bad guy in real life.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, I tip my top hat to you, sir.
SAM SUKSIRI: Why, thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: It is time for a quick break. Count your gold and grab your giant top hat.
ARIANA: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
WOMAN: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage, rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: What's up? What's up? What's up? It's me, debate dude, with a good attitude, Taylor Lincoln.
TODD DOUGLAS: And I'm debate dynamo, Todd Douglas here to tell you exactly what is up.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: So, Todd, tell us what is up?
TODD DOUGLAS: What is up is that we've just found another logical fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, Jeez. Don't they know logical fallacies are mistakes that make your argument weaker? What is with people?
TODD DOUGLAS: What is with people, indeed. But this time the people are bears. And this time they're using the anecdotal evidence fallacy. That's when you make an argument based on something that happened to you personally. Let's take a listen.
[MOVIE PROJECTOR RUNNING]
BABY BEAR: Mama, can I have some porridge, please?
MAMA BEAR: No, of course not.
BABY BEAR: But why? Porridge is my favorite.
MAMA BEAR: Last time I made porridge, a little blonde girl broke into our house, destroyed your chair, messed up our nicely made beds and got her mouth germs all over our porridge spoons. So no, I will not be making porridge ever again. Porridge brings trouble.
BABY BEAR: That happened once. We've had porridge so many times.
MAMA BEAR: Nope, sorry. Never again. Porridge is bad news.
[GENTLE MUSIC]
[BUZZING]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Wow, that mama bear definitely does not know what is up.
TODD DOUGLAS: She definitely does not. I understand why she might be upset about Goldilocks messing with her stuff, but it wasn't the porridges fault.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Indeed, something that happened just once is not enough evidence to base an argument on.
TODD DOUGLAS: And that is what's up. We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
ANNOUNCER: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, we know you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.
ROBOT: Entering Brains On Universe.
KID: To find my favorite podcasts.
ROBOT: Brains On.
KID: Smash Boom Best. Forever ago.
ROBOT: Picking up signal. Forever Ago, the history show hosted by Joy Dolo.
JOY DOLO: Welcome to--
[FANFARRE PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Joy's hall of stalls. Every door in this hall leads to a different model of toilet from throughout history. You want a potty like it's 1999.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
JOY DOLO: Right this way.
ROBOT: Zorp! Where did the signal go? Must find Forever Ago now.
ANNOUNCER: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ARIANA: And I'm your judge, Ariana.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this artistic debate idea from Brinley.
BRINLEY: My name is Brinley and my Smash Boom Best debate idea is photography versus portrait.
ARIANA: Wow, what an eye catching debate.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Brinley thinks should win.
ARIANA: And now it's back to our debate Dungeons and Dragons versus Monopoly.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the Micro Round. For the Micro Round challenge. Each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Anna and Sam, the prompt was Jumanji. In this Micro Round, you're transported into the world of your game. Share what the world looks like when your side has become reality. Anna went first last time. So, Sam, you're up. Take us inside Dungeons and Dragons.
[SCREAMING]
PLAYER: Oh, what happened?
WARLOCK TIM: Greetings I am the great and powerful Warlock Tim. And I've summoned you to the realm of Dungeons and Dragons because we need you to save us from the nine headed dragon, Balinor.
[DRAGON GROWLING]
PLAYER: I'm in a real life D&D game?
WARLOCK TIM: This castle is our last stand. If the dragon breaks through these walls, we're doomed. Doomed, doomed.
PLAYER: OK. First, I'll need a few things. Water.
WARLOCK TIM: I summon the purest glacial waters of the northern realms.
[WATER SPLASHING]
PLAYER: Hay seeds.
WARLOCK TIM: A handful of the finest-- Wait, wait. Hay seed? What sort of potion are you concocting?
PLAYER: I'm planting a garden.
WARLOCK TIM: This is no time for gardening. Here, take this.
[CONJURING MAGIC]
WARLOCK TIM: The legendary lance of Sir Lancelot and save us from the beast.
PLAYER: Good idea.
[DIGGING]
WARLOCK TIM: What are you doing?
PLAYER: I'm using the spear to loosen and aerate the dirt.
WARLOCK TIM: But the dragon. What about the dragon?
- This is D&D. My character is a botanist. I specialize in plants, not fighting. So I'm using my unique characteristics and my imagination to formulate a strategy to stop the dragon.
[DRAGON APPROACHING]
[DRAGON GROWLING]
PLAYER: Now I'll use my plant growth spell to make the hay instantly grow.
[HAY GROWING]
PLAYER: OK, Warlock Tim, summon a gust of wind to blow all the pollen off of the hay and onto the dragon.
[WIND BLOWING]
[SNEEZING]
- I happen to know that dragons have terrible allergies, and with nine heads, Balinor is going to need a lot of tissues.
[SNEEZING]
WARLOCK TIM: Oh, clever chosen one. You've saved us all.
MOLLY BLOOM: Didn't know botany could be so fierce.
ANNA WEGGEL: Scary.
MOLLY BLOOM: Incredible. Anna, it's your turn. Tell us what happens when Monopoly becomes real.
[THUNDER CRASHING]
BECCA: The weather is gross. Let's just play Monopoly.
GIRL: Good idea, Becca. I've got boardwalk, which means you're going to lose
BECCA: Not if I build a hotel first.
[GENTLE MUSIC]
GIRL: Mr. Monopoly? The mustachioed mascot?
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: Mr. Monopoly was my father, call me Milburn Pennybags.
BECCA: What are you doing here?
- You know, this and that. Twirling my luxurious whiskers, imparting knowledge unto you. Just typical mascot stuff. Now, you must understand, true wealth comes from fairness and strategy, not just from owning it all. Now, please pass me the orange crunchy snacks.
BECCA: Cheetos? Wait. Can old timey mascots eat cheetos?
[CRUNCHING]
- Yuck. I regret that bite. But you know, in games and in life, sometimes you need to press through challenges and keep going, even when things get yucky.
GIRL: Wow, we really have so much to learn about life from Monopoly.
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: I've been waiting for someone to say that my whole life.
GIRL: Wait. Why?
[INTENSE MUSIC]
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: Because now that you've said the magic words, I can finally retire.
[MAGIC SOUND]
GIRL: Becca, you have a white mustache.
BECCA: I do?
GIRL: Now a top hat. Wait, and are you holding a cane?
BECCA: Oh, my gosh. I'm the new Mr. Monopoly.
GIRL: You're famous.
BECCA: Hang on. Does this mean I'm only going to wear one outfit and have this luxurious white mustache for the rest of my life? I'm only 12.
MILBURN PENNYBAGS: Ta-ta. Hee, hee, ho, ho.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: I loved it. It was completely bonkers. Ariana, what stood out to you about Anna and Sam's Micro Rounds?
ARIANA: First of all, I want to have a shout out to the sound effects because those were amazing. I loved them so much. Second of all, Sam, I mean, Mr. Magie.
SAM SUKSIRI: Oh, yeah.
ARIANA: I loved again how you brought up imagination. And you can use whatever and make up whatever you need to. You don't need to actually fight. You can build a garden instead. Why fight when you can plant?
SAM SUKSIRI: Absolutely.
ARIANA: And Tim, loved Tim. He was very energetic.
SAM SUKSIRI: (WARLOCK'S VOICE) Thank you.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Genuinely did not know who that was.
ARIANA: And Anna, I also loved how you pressed through challenges, because that's a lot of kids can learn from that, especially me. I also loved how you do, how you talked about fairness and strategy, because again, I and some people I know can learn from fairness and strategy, because we don't have all the fairness in the world. So some kids need to learn about that.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, excellent work, both of you. Ariana, I'm sorry you have to make this decision, but only one of them can get a point for this round. The criteria are completely subjective and completely up to you. Did someone make it sound like their game was a fun place to be? Did you learned something new? Did you feel something? Award your point, but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic Then it's time for our third round. The super stealthy--
WOMAN: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called Sentence by Sentence. In this game, debaters each get four sentences to build a story together that's about both of their sides. They'll go back and forth until all eight sentences are used up and the story is complete.
MOLLY BLOOM: Debaters, does this make sense?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes
SAM SUKSIRI: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. We're going to start with you, Anna. So let's hear the first sentence. In this sentence by sentence story.
ANNA WEGGEL: Young Elizabeth Magie didn't have a friend in the world.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your turn, Sam.
SAM SUKSIRI: She approached a humble hotel, but didn't have enough rent.
ANNA WEGGEL: Clearly, the best thing to do was to introduce herself to another young woman across the lobby.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sam, your turn.
SAM SUKSIRI: 'Oh, a fellow traveler,' said the woman as she pulled back the hood of her cloak.
[LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Elizabeth Magie said, 'I don't know what kind of magical, mystical powers you have, but would you be up for a sensible game called the Landlord's Game?'
SAM SUKSIRI: 'Care to make it more interesting?' she said, pulling a bag of jewels from a chest.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: The suspense. All right. This is your last line now, Anna. Please make it count.
ANNA WEGGEL: Elizabeth Magie said, 'I'll take your jewels and use them to pay rent, while we play my game The Landlord's Game.'
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sam, your final line in this riveting story.
SAM SUKSIRI: Wow, you really do have to force people to play your game.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Really excellent work, both of you. Ariana, this time to award a point. Please think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect Then it's time for our final round.
WOMAN: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Sam, let's hear your six words for Dungeons and Dragons.
SAM SUKSIRI: If anything's possible, what would you?
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work. All right, Anna. It is time for your six words for Monopoly.
ANNA WEGGEL: Monopoly has universal appeal, Elizabeth Magie!
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Ariana, please award a final point for this Final Six. Have you made your decision?
ARIANA: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
ARIANA: I think I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Drum roll, please. And the winner is--
ARIANA: Dungeons and Dragons!
SAM SUKSIRI: Oh.
ANNA WEGGEL: That can't be right. It can't be right. Recount.
SAM SUKSIRI: It seemed like it was impossible.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. So, Ariana, what was your favorite part of today's debate?
ARIANA: Oh, definitely the Sneak Attack. That was so much fun. Mr. Magie, your sound effects, though. 'Oh, you really have to force people, interesting'.
SAM SUKSIRI: First of all, I really want to thank you for correcting me. I don't think I've heard Elizabeth Magie's name said out loud. I've only read it. So thank you so much. Monopoly is a favorite game of mine in my family. And so it was great to hear your defense of it. And really great to hear a positive thing about it.
SAM SUKSIRI: Like I said, I like playing Monopoly, but I feel like everybody kind of has this like, ugh, we're going to be playing Monopoly. So it is really great to hear somebody defend it, because if I wasn't defending Dungeons and Dragons and I would absolutely defend Monopoly.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, I feel the same way. And it was so fun to live in the world of Dungeons and Dragons, I have played it before. It was very scary. The one time I played it, but 99% of my friends play it religiously, every single week. And so they are-- They were horrified to hear that I was defending against it.
ANNA WEGGEL: But I loved the sound design. I loved living in the world of IT, and it was just really fun. You did a great job.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Ariana crown Dungeons and Dragons, the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ARIANA: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by Molly Bloom.
ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Alex Simpson with sound design by Arom Woldeslassie. Our editors are--
SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team. Rosie DuPont, Rachel briese, Anna Goldfield. Nico Gonzalez. Wisler, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humbert, Jess Miller, Joshua Ray, Marc Sanchez and Charlotte Travor.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Anna, is anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you so much, Ariana, for coming back to Judge. It was so fun to hang out with you today. And thank you to the spirit, the ghost spirit of Elizabeth Magie. It's probably never been talked about this much on a podcast before.
MOLLY BLOOM: How about you, Sam. Any special shout outs?
SAM SUKSIRI: Yeah, So if you want to learn more about Dungeons and Dragons, a terrific book I read to prepare for this was Of Dice And Men by David M. Ewalt. Ewalt? I can't-- I've only read his name. And then thank you to all the dungeon masters out there who make the games happen. They do so much work and there wouldn't be a Dungeons and Dragons community without the dungeon masters holding it all together.
MOLLY BLOOM: And how about you, ariana? Any special thanks or shout outs?
ARIANA: I want to thank everybody here for inviting me back. It's so great to be back. I also want to give a shout out to my mom and my dad for driving me everywhere. And also to my brother for supporting me.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's so nice. Before we go, let's check in and see who Brindley thinks should win the photography versus portraits debate.
BRINLEY: I think that portraits would win, because they're really fun to paint.
MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock down drag out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line.
MOLLY BLOOM: And make sure to subscribe to Brains On Universe on YouTube where you can watch animated versions of some of your favorite episodes. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week.
ARIANA: Au revoir.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bye.
[THEME MUSIC]
ARIANA: I can't believe you didn't roll a 10. I mean, 20. Like what? Maybe I should give it to Monopoly.
[LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: It's a technicality.
Transcription services provided by 3Play Media.
