Turn on the tap, and grab your shower cap… cuz it’s baths vs showers! Moment of Um producer Anna Weggel bubbles for baths in this soapy smackdown with writer, producer and shower-lover Boen Wang! Which splashy past-time will win? Sprinkling showers or bubbly tubs?
Vote below for the team YOU think won!
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Audio Transcript
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MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: From the brains behind Brains On!, it's Smash Boom Best.
ELLIOT: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is between the mean clean sprinkle machine and the big bad ringing bubbles back. Grab your rubber duckies, towels, and all the soap you can lather because it's baths versus showers. We've got Moment of Um producer Anna Weggel here to defend baths.
ANNA WEGGEL: Baths for people who like enjoying life!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And writer and producer Boen Wang is ready to make it rain for team showers.
BOEN WANG: My name's Boen, and the first thing I did this morning was take a shower.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And here to judge it all is Elliot from Saint Paul. Elliot likes theater class, has a full head of hair that he hasn't cut in eight years, and one time, drove up a mountain to see a solar eclipse. Hi, Elliot.
ELLIOT: Hello.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elliot, eight years without a haircut. I am very impressed. Do you do trims?
ELLIOT: I mean, you can't really have hair for eight years without trims.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, cool. So we just do a little ends here and there.
ELLIOT: Yeah, got to make sure it stays luxurious.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Can you tell us how long is your hair now?
ELLIOT: I guess, a little past shoulders, so upper chest.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very impressive. Do you want to keep growing it?
ELLIOT: I mean, I see no reason to stop. I guess-- I mean, I like the way it looks, and then, also, it's just cheaper this way.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Is there a point-- is there a length you're kind of aiming for, when it gets to that point, you kind of feel like, OK, this is enough now?
ELLIOT: When it stops growing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, because hair does that. It'll just kind of stop growing at a certain point, maybe.
ELLIOT: Yeah. You look at-- it's not quite-- it's the opposite of exponential. God, I'm going to fail math class.
[LAUGHTER]
No, it's like-- one like--
BOEN WANG: Logarithmic?
ELLIOT: It's--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ELLIOT: Oh god, no. It's when it starts to plateau, the growth, and it's-- the growth has just been slowing down, and it's been so sad.
BOEN WANG: Asymptotic?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
BOEN WANG: I just love math. Anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: I love this, this little math lesson. Well, will Elliot side with showers or join team baths? Only he can tell. Elliot, are you ready to judge this thing?
ELLIOT: Of course.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we dive in, let's review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Every debate consists of four rounds of argumentation-- the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro-Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge, Elliott, will award points to the team that impresses him the most, but he'll keep his decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, SmashBoom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Boen, Anna, and Elliot, are you ready?
BOEN WANG: I'm ready to be showered with praise after I win this debate.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, I really think this one's going to make a splash.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Excellent. Then it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin, and Anna, you're up first. Tell us why we shouldn't be wishy-washy when it comes to baths.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
BERNICE THE BATH: Hi, I'm Bernice the Bath. Welcome to me.
[WATER SPLASHING]
You've had a hard day. I get it. I used to work on Wall Street before I became a bath. You need a place that will soothe your aches and pains, relax your weary mind, and, best of all, give you oodles of playtime opportunities because baths are life's water park. And just think of all the accessories I come with-- bath bombs, suds, foam, books, magic grow capsules, even crayons.
You, humans, love baths so much you've created a bath version of anything you can think of to enjoy your time in the wonderful waters of me, Bernice the Bath. Lonely in there? Bring along a sibling or waterproofed doll. Hate being naked? Toss on a bathing suit and dive in for some top-notch, wholesome playtime with your best pal. And don't even get me started on the bubble potential of a bath. Ever heard of a bubble shower? Neither have I.
[BATH DRAINING]
Ta-ta for now, you squeaky clean human who very clearly enjoyed this experience you've just had, much more than you would have a shower.
ANNA WEGGEL: Wow, that was extremely fun. And not only was it a blast. It had a relaxing and therapeutic effect on my body and mind. Consistent warm baths are linked to decreases in stress hormones and more balanced serotonin levels, which helps give you a better mood. That means if you're feeling sad, hop into the bath. It just might make you feel better. I'm a 38-year-old woman, but guess what? Baths are fantastic for little kids. I want you to picture my baby daughter, Luna.
[LUNA BABBLING, SPLASHING WATER]
She's a year and a half. She hates showers. She thinks they're scary and loud. She can't stay standing up on the slippery floor, and water is always spraying in her face. But guess what? She loves baths. I fill up the bath a few inches, plop her in there, give her baths books and sea creature toys, and she has the time of her life. Baths are perfect for kids as an opportunity for play and entertainment. And I can sit there with her, staying dry outside the tub, watching over her, reading her books,
(READING TO LUNA) Hop into a bubbly tub. Wash and rinse and scrub-a-dub. Pop up bubbles just for fun. Pop!
[LUNA BABBLING]
and teaching her words,
(TALKING TO LUNA) Can you say "Mama"?
LUNA: Mama.
ANNA WEGGEL: and letting her explore. That's not something I could do if she was taking a shower. And taking a super fun bath every night is a great way to teach her how to clean herself. I've noticed her kicking, splashing, and even floating-- with my careful supervision, of course. Not only is she getting clean, not only is she having fun, but she's also learning survival skills.
Babies aside, baths are great for people with joint pain, mobility issues, and muscle tension. Sure, a shower can be fast. But a bath is gentle, and baths allow us to take care of some of our most vulnerable fellow humans, like little ones, our elderly friends, and humans of any age who need special care. It's the caring choice.
Now you're probably saying to yourself, self, I just can't let go of the fact that showers probably use less water. But to that, I'd say it really depends on how long the shower is and how intense the flow from the showerhead is. If you only fill the water in a bath enough to cover your bod, it can save a significant amount over time. If you have a normal showerhead, a 17-minute shower is enough to use more water than a bath. And if you have a powerful showerhead, that time is cut in half. Plus, baths make it easy to scoop up water in a bucket and pour it on your head, reusing water for the win.
So if you limit your tub to only covering your body and use eco-friendly bath products to reduce the amount of chemicals that are released into the water, you're golden, golden, squeaky clean and smiling ear to ear from how much fun you just had in the bath. Right, Luna?
[LUNA BABBLING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Soaking in the facts, so lovely. Elliott, what stood out to you about Anna's Declaration of Greatness?
ELLIOT: There are some individual impacts where it's like it's great for relaxation, bunch of toys, bunch of bubbles helps your mental health. And then there are some also bigger impacts, which is the environmental impact, and it helps other human beings. So it's interesting to see how you mixed the two kinds of impacts together in what was a pretty depth way.
ANNA WEGGEL: Awww. Thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very excellent. All right, Boen, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to show why baths make for dirty dipping, and your time starts now.
BOEN WANG: OK, first off, a 17-minute long shower is obscene. I have never once heard of someone showering for that long. On average, showers use much less water than baths. You said baths are relaxing. I never find baths relaxing because books get wet. If you like candles, I'm afraid that they're going to fall over and make my house catch on fire. I'm just like, I can't relax in a bath. And also, you're saying that your baths are for children. That is true, totally. But once children grow up and become mature--
MOLLY BLOOM: And it's time.
BOEN WANG: --and independent, they start showering and stop bathing. So anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's time. [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Baths books are a thing. They can get wet.
BOEN WANG: What's a bath book?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: And they can--
BOEN WANG: I get it.
ANNA WEGGEL: --get wet. It's great. Your kid will love it.
BOEN WANG: Oh, really? Do they have--
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
BOEN WANG: --Moby-Dick as a bath book, though? I don't know.
ANNA WEGGEL: Sure. I'll get it for you.
BOEN WANG: That would be great literature. Anyway.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Boen, I know you have a lot more to say. We're excited to hear it. Show us why showers are a darling downpour.
BOEN WANG: Imagine it's the end of a long day. You're feeling absolutely filthy. Imagine all the sweat that sticks to your skin, the crumbs that fall on you while you're eating, the dirt and dust and grime and grossness your body accumulates from the moment you wake up. And now the day is done. You're finally ready to go to bed, but you want to get nice and clean first. So what do you do? Well.
[WATER RUNNING]
You could turn on the tap and fill a bathtub with water. You could get it to the right temperature, turn off the tap,
[TAP SQUEAKING]
step into the water.
[WATER SWASHING]
And then.
[HORROR STINGER]
All the sweat and crumbs and dirt and dust and grime and grossness and germs, it all sloughs off your skin into the water.
[GASPING]
And as you sit there in that tub of still water, the water temperature gradually turning lukewarm, your skin shrinking and shriveling and pruning, you're marinating in your own filth.
[RETCHING]
Or.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You can pull the drain on that disgusting body soup.
[BATHTUB DRAINING]
Turn on the showerhead.
[WATER RUNNING]
And step into a nice clean, refreshing shower.
[SIGHING]
That shower, that rejuvenating, stupendous shower, actually washes the dirt off your skin.
SUBJECTS: Yay!
BOEN WANG: And showers aren't just better for you in your hygiene. They're better for the planet. Filling up the average bathtub takes 36 gallons of water, though with a water-saving showerhead, a 5-minute shower only uses 10 gallons. Planet Earth will thank you for being so conscientious about conserving its precious resources, especially in the age of climate change.
PLANET EARTH: Thank you for being so conscientious about conserving my precious resources, especially in the age of climate change.
BOEN WANG: You're welcome, Planet Earth. And the reason showers are so much better for the environment is because they're fast. Like, if you woke up late on a school day.
[SCHOOL BUS HONKING]
MOM: Well, that's just great. Tardy McLate Pants is about to miss the school bus again. If I have to drive him to school one more time, I'm going to lose it!
[JORDAN SNORING]
Jordan!
JORDAN: Aargh! Mom!
MOM: Shower now!
BOEN WANG: You can hop in and out of the shower and still make it to the bus, feeling nice and clean.
JORDAN: Phew. Made it.
BOEN WANG: But if you took a bath.
[SCHOOL BUS HONKING]
JORDAN: No, wait. The bathtub hasn't filled up yet.
BOEN WANG: You won't even step in the water before you get left in the dust.
JORDAN: Oh, man. If only I've taken a shower.
MOM: If only, my son. [SIGHS] If only.
BOEN WANG: But if you do have time, showers can be a place to hang out, relax, and let your imagination run wild. Ever wish you could get a back rub from a waterfall? You can with one of those massaging showerheads. Let the water work out your shoulder knots.
[MAGICAL STINGER]
Or if you want a bit more excitement, there are misting showers that create a thick fog to lather up in. It's like taking a shower in the middle of a tropical jungle. Plus, if you're feeling contemplative, showers are a great place to get some thinking done. There's a reason we have the phrase "shower thoughts" to describe those bizarre ideas that come up only when we're in the shower.
[WATER RUNNING]
SUBJECT 1: If I'm at a restaurant waiting for the waiter, am I the waiter?
BOEN WANG: There's even science behind this phenomenon. When you're showering, you're stuck in a place without any distractions, doing a task that keeps your brain just engaged enough but doesn't require any active thinking, which is why your mind starts to wander and come up with weird stuff. But if you do want to do something engaging.
[WATER RUNNING]
(SINGING) You can sing in the shower. It always sounds amazing. Your voice gets so much power because it's reverberating.
Being in that small enclosed space makes your voice sound bold and booming. And showers create a lot of white noise, so you can sing in privacy. No need to feel embarrassed. So if you're feeling gross and want to get yourself clean, save the environment, have a good time while saving yourself some time, don't--
[HORROR STINGER]
--make yourself feel even grosser by taking a bath.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Instead, make yourself actually clean by taking a shower.
MOLLY BLOOM: A magnificent and musical argument there for showers. Elliot, what stood out to you about Boen's Declaration of Greatness?
ELLIOT: I appreciate the performance a lot, also the fearmongering.
[LAUGHTER]
BOEN WANG: I love fearmongering, yeah. Love negativity.
ELLIOT: Oh, yes.
BOEN WANG: It's what's good for this country.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Anna, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to prove why showers make for sorry soaking, and your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: Boen, Boen, Boen, first off, "body soup"? Sick. How dirty are you? Also, you said showers are relaxing, but who can relax when they're hearing this? [IMITATING WATER RUNNING] Plus, a shower might be fast, but it's limiting, it's joyless, it's mundane. When you take a bath, it's special, it's a treat. You can take a super long bath. You can watch a Netflix movie. You can watch four episodes of The Office. You know what you can do while you shower? Shower. That's it. You can't take a long shower and have a good conscience. You can't have bubble showers--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
BOEN WANG: You know what you can do in a shower? Listen to a great podcast, such as this one.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: That would have to be very loud.
BOEN WANG: [LAUGHS] Well, I don't know. Just turn it up. Anyway.
ANNA WEGGEL: Do you have a speaker in your shower?
BOEN WANG: My partner just puts their phone next to the shower, and then they just listen to NPR Up First. It's great. Anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Wow. I love it. OK.
BOEN WANG: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elliot, it is time to award some points. Please give 1 point to the Declaration of Greatness you like best and 1 point to the most awesome rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes win you over, or were you swayed by their killer logic? Both points could go to the same person, or each debater could get a point. Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Boen and Anna, how are you two feeling so far?
BOEN WANG: Feeling good, feeling really refreshed. How about yourself, Anna?
ANNA WEGGEL: Nervous.
[LAUGHTER]
I-- Elliot is smart and sassy.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: And I see myself in him.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right, well, take a moment to rinse and repeat.
ELLIOT: Because we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[THEME MUSIC]
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hey, hi, hello, debate besties. I'm Todd Douglas. I'm here with the wind beneath my wings, my bestie--
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Taylor Lincoln! And we're back again with another logical fallacy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Also known as a debate don't.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: They're debate techniques that lack reasoning.
TODD DOUGLAS: And they make your argument weaker. Today, we're tackling personal incredulity.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's when you say something can't be true because you personally can't believe it.
TODD DOUGLAS: And guess what? Even Mariel the Mermaid uses this fallacy. Check it out.
[UNDERWATER BUBBLING]
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Jesse, look at my latest treasure.
JESSE: Oh, looks like you found a fork.
MARIEL THE MERMAID: No, it's actually called a thingamabob.
JESSE: Oh, interesting. Well, we call it a fo--
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Don't be ridiculous. It's a thingamabob, and it's for combing your hair. See? It really gets all the kelp out. Great for a scalp massage, too. Works wonders for my sandruff.
JESSE: We actually use those things called hairbrushes to, well, brush our hair. And we use forks, or as you call them, thingamabobs, to eat our food.
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Jesse, don't be ridiculous. Thingamabobs are for combing hair, not eating. We don't need forks because mermaids, seagulls, and humans all eat the same way, by ferociously slurping the food and then spitting it into each other's mouths, like a mama bird feeds a baby bird. It's the only way.
JESSE: Oh, no, that's actually not how humans eat. Wait. Is that-- is that really how mermaids eat?
MARIEL THE MERMAID: What do you mean? What are we supposed to do? Pick up our food with our own fingers? Use these so-called forks? Chew it with our own teeth? Don't forget I'm a mermaid princess. You think I'm really going to chew my own food?
JESSE: What? Yes, that's exactly what I think.
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Jesse, don't be ridiculous. You baby bird your food like the rest of us. I simply cannot believe you'd, [SCOFFS] ew, eat with them. Thingamabobs are for brushing your hair, and that's it.
JESSE: Mariel, you're being ridiculous.
[BUZZING]
TODD DOUGLAS: OK, turns out down where it's wetter, not everything is better.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You got that right. Just because Mariel doesn't understand how forks work, or what they're called, that doesn't mean humans don't use them to eat.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right. You can't say something isn't true just because you don't understand it.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah. Also, I have so many questions. For starters, how can you baby bird your food when you're underwater?
TODD DOUGLAS: I'd really rather not.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Like, what's the physics of that? Because it really sounds like a mess.
TODD DOUGLAS: And look at that. It's time to go. Ah, shocks. Guess we'll have to discuss the merits of mermaid feeding another time, or hopefully never. Catch you next time on--
BOTH: State of Debate.
[THEME MUSIC]
[THEME MUSIC] Best Boom Smash. Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ELLIOT: And I'm your judge, Elliot.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this ferocious debate idea from Shri.
SHRI: Hi, my name is Shri, and my debate idea is tigers versus jaguars.
ELLIOT: Wow. I can't wait for that feline smackdown.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Shri at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ELLIOT: And now it's back to today's debate, baths versus showers.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right, and it's time for round 2, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro-Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the Micro-Round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. And Anna and Boen's prompt is called In a World. We asked them to make a movie trailer about a film featuring baths and showers, respectively. Anna went first last time, so Boen, you're up. Give us a sneak peek for the team showers' movie.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
BOEN WANG: In a postapocalyptic world, where there is no running water.
[INSECT BUZZING]
Where there are only pools of still water that have accumulated hundreds of years of filth and pollution.
[BUBBLING]
Where humans have turned into prune people. Their skin shriveled up from a lifetime of taking only baths.
SUBJECT 2: I desperately yearn for smooth skin but have only known pruniness my whole life.
BOEN WANG: Runny Refreshy refuses to give in.
RUNNY REFRESHY: There's got to be a better way. You guys, I read about something called The Last Shower. In a faraway land at the top of a sacred mountain, there's an actual stream of running refreshing water.
SUBJECT 2: Ugh, my goodness, if only that were true. What I would give to stop taking gross baths and take a shower with running refreshing water. Good luck, Runny Refreshy.
BOEN WANG: Runny goes on an epic quest across dangerous lands.
RUNNY REFRESHY: Oh geez, how much further till I can get out of this sludgy water?
BOEN WANG: Faces dastardly bath-loving monsters.
SUBJECT 3: Why don't you join me in this bath? We're ready.
RUNNY REFRESHY: Ew, get your disgusting bath water away from me.
BOEN WANG: To discover.
RUNNY REFRESHY: [GASPS] Could it be?
BOEN WANG: The Legend of The Last Shower. Rated S for Showers are so much better than baths.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
BOEN WANG: That's an Oscar winner right there. Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: I hope it's the first of a series of many Runny Refreshy movies. Whole franchise--
BOEN WANG: Franchise-material, yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: I can just tell. Definitely. All right, very nice work, Boen. Anna, please show us your bath blockbuster.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNA WEGGEL: From the creators of Splish-Splash, Give Me Cash and Underwater Bubble Trouble comes a new adventure that's sure to make a splash.
[WATER SPLASHING]
Meet Bubbles, a small and timid rubber ducky who's never worked up the courage to leave his own bathtub.
BUBBLES: I'm scared of everything.
ANNA WEGGEL: And Quackers, a brassy, adventurous duck who's ready to take the world by storm.
QUACKERS: I'm the fun one.
ANNA WEGGEL: When their worlds collide in the most unexpected way.
BUBBLES: I thought I was the only one in this bathtub.
QUACKERS: I'm baby's new toy. I'm the favorite.
BUBBLES: Oh, no, I'm being replaced.
QUACKERS: Nah, duck, you got a new ducky bestie.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bubbles and Quackers embark on a wild journey of self-discovery.
QUACKERS: [SCREAMS] Rough waters ahead!
BUBBLES: Hold your breath.
QUACKERS: This is so draining.
BUBBLES: I think I know how to get us out of this one. Hold my wing.
ANNA WEGGEL: And learn the true meaning of friendship.
QUACKERS: Bubbles, you saved my life.
BUBBLES: I didn't even know I was capable of such bath bravery.
ANNA WEGGEL: Get ready to soak up some fun with Bubbles and Quackers, coming soon to a bathtub-- I mean, theater near you.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] I love a buddy comedy. [LAUGHS] OK, Elliott, what did you like about Boen and Anna's Micro-Rounds?
ELLIOT: They were both really good and also kind of cliché.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: You're not wrong, my friend.
ELLIOT: For baths, I wrote down "friendship" but with a W as one of my notes, so I think that says something.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait. So that would be pronounced "fwendship"?
ELLIOT: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
[LAUGHTER]
ELLIOT: And then I'm glad the fearmongering was kept up throughout the showers one, too.
BOEN WANG: Absolutely. That's the theme.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right, Elliot, it is time to award a point. Don't tell us who it's going to. Again, the criteria are up to you. It could be the movie you'd like to see, maybe the movie that would bring in all the awards, maybe a movie that taught you something, a movie that made you laugh, a movie that made you think. Have you awarded your point?
ELLIOT: Yep.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then it's time for our third around, the super stealthy--
SUBJECTS: Ha-ha! Hoo-ha!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improv round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called Mystery Sound. Anna and Boen, we're going to give you a list of things related to your side, and you'll each have 30 seconds to get Elliott to guess as many mystery sounds from your list as you can. So if my side was smoothie, my first sound I might be trying to get Elliot to guess would be this. [IMITATING WHIRRING BLENDER]
ELLIOT: Blender?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, Elliot, yes! So we'll time you. We'll see how many of these sounds you can get through. Whoever gets Elliot to guess the most mystery sounds right wins. And if it's a tie, then it'll just be a tough call, and Elliot will decide who gets the point. Boen went first last time, so Anna, you're up. Let's hear your bath-inspired mystery sounds. Let's see how many of these you can get in 30 seconds. Your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SQUEAKING] Quack, quack.
ELLIOT: Rubber duck.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
ANNA WEGGEL: [GURGLING]
ELLIOT: Drain.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
ANNA WEGGEL: [SWISHING]
ELLIOT: Tap.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SWISHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You can pass if you need to.
ELLIOT: Water flowing out of the tap.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SWISHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ELLIOT: Sprinkler.
ANNA WEGGEL: [GURGLING]
ELLIOT: Drowning.
ANNA WEGGEL: [BLOWING A RASPBERRY]
ELLIOT: Wet sponge.
ANNA WEGGEL: [BLOWING A RASPBERRY, HISSING]
ELLIOT: Bath bomb?
MOLLY BLOOM: Time. Time! Time! Time!
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: I was so distracted by that sound. I was like in a trance for a second.
[LAUGHTER]
Really good guesses.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, so the last one was-- Anna, what were you trying to--
ANNA WEGGEL: It's lathering soap. The one that was like [IMITATING SQUISHY SOUND], it was slathering soap in your hands. And then the really hard one was just splash. Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: I did like your sponge guess.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's excellent guess
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, so we successfully guessed two. Excellent work, Anna and Elliot. All right, Boen, it's your turn. Let's see how many sounds you can get Elliott to guess in 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
BOEN WANG: [IMITATING SWISHING SOUND]
ELLIOT: Showerhead. Sure, yeah, OK, next.
[LAUGHTER]
BOEN WANG: [WORDLESS SINGING]
ELLIOT: Singing in the shower.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
BOEN WANG: OK, let's try this one again. [IMITATING SWISHING SOUND]
ELLIOT: When you turn on the shower.
BOEN WANG: Yes.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
Nice. OK, next one. [IMITATING SQUEAKY SOUND]
ELLIOT: Cleaning.
BOEN WANG: [CHORTLES] Cleaning?
MOLLY BLOOM: And time. [CHUCKLES]
BOEN WANG: OK. That's--
MOLLY BLOOM: All right.
BOEN WANG: --two and a half, right? I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, what was that last one do you think? Boen, can you tell Elliot what that last one was?
BOEN WANG: It was squeegeeing the wall, so cleaning kind of the-- I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: You did an excellent job. All right, so Elliot, it is a tie.
ELLIOT: Oh god.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you can decide if that cleaning is worth half a point. If it was zero points, whose sounds did you enjoy more? Who did it more quickly?
ELLIOT: (SINGING) Eeny, meeny, miny, moe. Catch the tiger by its toe. If it hollers, let it go. Eeny, meeny, miny-- OK, that one.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. [LAUGHS] All right, Elliot, have you awarded your fourth point?
ELLIOT: Yep.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then it's time for our final round.
[THEME MUSIC]
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Boen, you've got six words to sing the praises of showers. Why do showers reign supreme?
BOEN WANG: Guess what I'm doing tomorrow? Showering.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ELLIOT: Yeah, it's true.
MOLLY BLOOM: Elegant. Lovely. All right, Anna, your turn. Let's hear six words to prove baths are the better baby bather.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bath? More like path to happiness.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent.
BOEN WANG: I can concede that one. That's nice.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you--
[LAUGHTER]
--so much. I need it.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elliot, please award a final point for this Final Six. Have you awarded your final point?
ELLIOT: Yup
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Have you tallied them?
ELLIOT: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready to crown one team the smash boom best?
ELLIOT: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drum roll, please.
[DRUM ROLL]
And the winner is--
ELLIOT: Baths.
ANNA WEGGEL: [GASPS]
BOEN WANG: Oh, man.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SCREAMING]
BOEN WANG: Time to cry in the shower. That's what I'm doing tomorrow.
MOLLY BLOOM: You know what? Showers are an excellent place to cry, got to say. [LAUGHS] So Elliot, was there a one moment or something that really swung it for baths?
ELLIOT: Yeah, the most memorable part, honestly, was "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe."
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Rough luck of the draw.
[LAUGHTER]
I'll take it.
BOEN WANG: That's what life comes down to.
MOLLY BLOOM: That shows how close this debate was that "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe" had to be invoked. So excellent work to both you, Anna and Boen.
ANNA WEGGEL: Boen, I loved your performance today. I am a shower taker myself most days. Sure, I love it.
BOEN WANG: Anna, I loved your Declaration of Greatness. I love that you use tape of your daughter. It was very adorable and heartwarming. And I don't know. Maybe I should try taking some more baths, anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you for calling the tape of my daughter heartwarming and not shameless.
[LAUGHTER]
That was really kind of you.
BOEN WANG: exploiting your child?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, for sure.
BOEN WANG: [CHUCKLES]
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOEN WANG: She has a long career in podcasting starting now.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: This is why I had her.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Elliot crowned team baths the smash boom best, but what about you?
ELLIOT: Head to SmashBoom.org to vote and tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! and APM Studios.
BOEN WANG: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rose DuPont, Ruby Guthrie, and Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez and Gary O'Keefe, with sound design by Marc Sanchez.
ANNA WEGGEL: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
BOEN WANG: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Molly Quinlan, Alex Simpson, Austin Cross, and Taylor Coffman. Boen, is there anyone you like to give a shout-out to today?
BOEN WANG: Yeah, special shout-out to Jed Kim for putting me in touch with the show and who I believe is like a-- has won many times, unlike me, and also to Rose for getting coffee with me that one time. We should do that again.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. And how about you, Anna? Are there any special shout-outs today?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes, I want to thank Elliot for making the correct decision today.
[LAUGHTER]
Even though it came down to "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe," I'm cool with that. And I want to thank baby Luna for reintroducing me to the magic of baths after all these years.
MOLLY BLOOM: Baby Luna. And Elliot, do you want to give any special thanks?
ELLIOT: No, I think I did perfectly.
[LAUGHTER]
BOEN WANG: Me, too. Me, too.
ANNA WEGGEL: Correct.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we go, let's check in with Shri and see who he thinks should win his tiger versus jaguar debate.
SHRI: I think tigers would win because they're faster and stronger.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag-out debate? Head to SmashBoom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
BOEN WANG: See you later.
ELLIOT: Bye.
ANNA WEGGEL: This was so--
MOLLY BLOOM: Bye.
ANNA WEGGEL: --much fun.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, putting through the test. Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, better than the rest. You're the smash boom best. You're the smash boom best.
ELLIOT: Got to make sure it stays luxurious.
ELLIOT: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is between the mean clean sprinkle machine and the big bad ringing bubbles back. Grab your rubber duckies, towels, and all the soap you can lather because it's baths versus showers. We've got Moment of Um producer Anna Weggel here to defend baths.
ANNA WEGGEL: Baths for people who like enjoying life!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And writer and producer Boen Wang is ready to make it rain for team showers.
BOEN WANG: My name's Boen, and the first thing I did this morning was take a shower.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And here to judge it all is Elliot from Saint Paul. Elliot likes theater class, has a full head of hair that he hasn't cut in eight years, and one time, drove up a mountain to see a solar eclipse. Hi, Elliot.
ELLIOT: Hello.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elliot, eight years without a haircut. I am very impressed. Do you do trims?
ELLIOT: I mean, you can't really have hair for eight years without trims.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, cool. So we just do a little ends here and there.
ELLIOT: Yeah, got to make sure it stays luxurious.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Can you tell us how long is your hair now?
ELLIOT: I guess, a little past shoulders, so upper chest.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very impressive. Do you want to keep growing it?
ELLIOT: I mean, I see no reason to stop. I guess-- I mean, I like the way it looks, and then, also, it's just cheaper this way.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Is there a point-- is there a length you're kind of aiming for, when it gets to that point, you kind of feel like, OK, this is enough now?
ELLIOT: When it stops growing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, because hair does that. It'll just kind of stop growing at a certain point, maybe.
ELLIOT: Yeah. You look at-- it's not quite-- it's the opposite of exponential. God, I'm going to fail math class.
[LAUGHTER]
No, it's like-- one like--
BOEN WANG: Logarithmic?
ELLIOT: It's--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ELLIOT: Oh god, no. It's when it starts to plateau, the growth, and it's-- the growth has just been slowing down, and it's been so sad.
BOEN WANG: Asymptotic?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
BOEN WANG: I just love math. Anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: I love this, this little math lesson. Well, will Elliot side with showers or join team baths? Only he can tell. Elliot, are you ready to judge this thing?
ELLIOT: Of course.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we dive in, let's review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Every debate consists of four rounds of argumentation-- the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro-Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge, Elliott, will award points to the team that impresses him the most, but he'll keep his decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, SmashBoom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Boen, Anna, and Elliot, are you ready?
BOEN WANG: I'm ready to be showered with praise after I win this debate.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, I really think this one's going to make a splash.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] Excellent. Then it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin, and Anna, you're up first. Tell us why we shouldn't be wishy-washy when it comes to baths.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
BERNICE THE BATH: Hi, I'm Bernice the Bath. Welcome to me.
[WATER SPLASHING]
You've had a hard day. I get it. I used to work on Wall Street before I became a bath. You need a place that will soothe your aches and pains, relax your weary mind, and, best of all, give you oodles of playtime opportunities because baths are life's water park. And just think of all the accessories I come with-- bath bombs, suds, foam, books, magic grow capsules, even crayons.
You, humans, love baths so much you've created a bath version of anything you can think of to enjoy your time in the wonderful waters of me, Bernice the Bath. Lonely in there? Bring along a sibling or waterproofed doll. Hate being naked? Toss on a bathing suit and dive in for some top-notch, wholesome playtime with your best pal. And don't even get me started on the bubble potential of a bath. Ever heard of a bubble shower? Neither have I.
[BATH DRAINING]
Ta-ta for now, you squeaky clean human who very clearly enjoyed this experience you've just had, much more than you would have a shower.
ANNA WEGGEL: Wow, that was extremely fun. And not only was it a blast. It had a relaxing and therapeutic effect on my body and mind. Consistent warm baths are linked to decreases in stress hormones and more balanced serotonin levels, which helps give you a better mood. That means if you're feeling sad, hop into the bath. It just might make you feel better. I'm a 38-year-old woman, but guess what? Baths are fantastic for little kids. I want you to picture my baby daughter, Luna.
[LUNA BABBLING, SPLASHING WATER]
She's a year and a half. She hates showers. She thinks they're scary and loud. She can't stay standing up on the slippery floor, and water is always spraying in her face. But guess what? She loves baths. I fill up the bath a few inches, plop her in there, give her baths books and sea creature toys, and she has the time of her life. Baths are perfect for kids as an opportunity for play and entertainment. And I can sit there with her, staying dry outside the tub, watching over her, reading her books,
(READING TO LUNA) Hop into a bubbly tub. Wash and rinse and scrub-a-dub. Pop up bubbles just for fun. Pop!
[LUNA BABBLING]
and teaching her words,
(TALKING TO LUNA) Can you say "Mama"?
LUNA: Mama.
ANNA WEGGEL: and letting her explore. That's not something I could do if she was taking a shower. And taking a super fun bath every night is a great way to teach her how to clean herself. I've noticed her kicking, splashing, and even floating-- with my careful supervision, of course. Not only is she getting clean, not only is she having fun, but she's also learning survival skills.
Babies aside, baths are great for people with joint pain, mobility issues, and muscle tension. Sure, a shower can be fast. But a bath is gentle, and baths allow us to take care of some of our most vulnerable fellow humans, like little ones, our elderly friends, and humans of any age who need special care. It's the caring choice.
Now you're probably saying to yourself, self, I just can't let go of the fact that showers probably use less water. But to that, I'd say it really depends on how long the shower is and how intense the flow from the showerhead is. If you only fill the water in a bath enough to cover your bod, it can save a significant amount over time. If you have a normal showerhead, a 17-minute shower is enough to use more water than a bath. And if you have a powerful showerhead, that time is cut in half. Plus, baths make it easy to scoop up water in a bucket and pour it on your head, reusing water for the win.
So if you limit your tub to only covering your body and use eco-friendly bath products to reduce the amount of chemicals that are released into the water, you're golden, golden, squeaky clean and smiling ear to ear from how much fun you just had in the bath. Right, Luna?
[LUNA BABBLING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Soaking in the facts, so lovely. Elliott, what stood out to you about Anna's Declaration of Greatness?
ELLIOT: There are some individual impacts where it's like it's great for relaxation, bunch of toys, bunch of bubbles helps your mental health. And then there are some also bigger impacts, which is the environmental impact, and it helps other human beings. So it's interesting to see how you mixed the two kinds of impacts together in what was a pretty depth way.
ANNA WEGGEL: Awww. Thank you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very excellent. All right, Boen, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to show why baths make for dirty dipping, and your time starts now.
BOEN WANG: OK, first off, a 17-minute long shower is obscene. I have never once heard of someone showering for that long. On average, showers use much less water than baths. You said baths are relaxing. I never find baths relaxing because books get wet. If you like candles, I'm afraid that they're going to fall over and make my house catch on fire. I'm just like, I can't relax in a bath. And also, you're saying that your baths are for children. That is true, totally. But once children grow up and become mature--
MOLLY BLOOM: And it's time.
BOEN WANG: --and independent, they start showering and stop bathing. So anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's time. [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Baths books are a thing. They can get wet.
BOEN WANG: What's a bath book?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: And they can--
BOEN WANG: I get it.
ANNA WEGGEL: --get wet. It's great. Your kid will love it.
BOEN WANG: Oh, really? Do they have--
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
BOEN WANG: --Moby-Dick as a bath book, though? I don't know.
ANNA WEGGEL: Sure. I'll get it for you.
BOEN WANG: That would be great literature. Anyway.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Boen, I know you have a lot more to say. We're excited to hear it. Show us why showers are a darling downpour.
BOEN WANG: Imagine it's the end of a long day. You're feeling absolutely filthy. Imagine all the sweat that sticks to your skin, the crumbs that fall on you while you're eating, the dirt and dust and grime and grossness your body accumulates from the moment you wake up. And now the day is done. You're finally ready to go to bed, but you want to get nice and clean first. So what do you do? Well.
[WATER RUNNING]
You could turn on the tap and fill a bathtub with water. You could get it to the right temperature, turn off the tap,
[TAP SQUEAKING]
step into the water.
[WATER SWASHING]
And then.
[HORROR STINGER]
All the sweat and crumbs and dirt and dust and grime and grossness and germs, it all sloughs off your skin into the water.
[GASPING]
And as you sit there in that tub of still water, the water temperature gradually turning lukewarm, your skin shrinking and shriveling and pruning, you're marinating in your own filth.
[RETCHING]
Or.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You can pull the drain on that disgusting body soup.
[BATHTUB DRAINING]
Turn on the showerhead.
[WATER RUNNING]
And step into a nice clean, refreshing shower.
[SIGHING]
That shower, that rejuvenating, stupendous shower, actually washes the dirt off your skin.
SUBJECTS: Yay!
BOEN WANG: And showers aren't just better for you in your hygiene. They're better for the planet. Filling up the average bathtub takes 36 gallons of water, though with a water-saving showerhead, a 5-minute shower only uses 10 gallons. Planet Earth will thank you for being so conscientious about conserving its precious resources, especially in the age of climate change.
PLANET EARTH: Thank you for being so conscientious about conserving my precious resources, especially in the age of climate change.
BOEN WANG: You're welcome, Planet Earth. And the reason showers are so much better for the environment is because they're fast. Like, if you woke up late on a school day.
[SCHOOL BUS HONKING]
MOM: Well, that's just great. Tardy McLate Pants is about to miss the school bus again. If I have to drive him to school one more time, I'm going to lose it!
[JORDAN SNORING]
Jordan!
JORDAN: Aargh! Mom!
MOM: Shower now!
BOEN WANG: You can hop in and out of the shower and still make it to the bus, feeling nice and clean.
JORDAN: Phew. Made it.
BOEN WANG: But if you took a bath.
[SCHOOL BUS HONKING]
JORDAN: No, wait. The bathtub hasn't filled up yet.
BOEN WANG: You won't even step in the water before you get left in the dust.
JORDAN: Oh, man. If only I've taken a shower.
MOM: If only, my son. [SIGHS] If only.
BOEN WANG: But if you do have time, showers can be a place to hang out, relax, and let your imagination run wild. Ever wish you could get a back rub from a waterfall? You can with one of those massaging showerheads. Let the water work out your shoulder knots.
[MAGICAL STINGER]
Or if you want a bit more excitement, there are misting showers that create a thick fog to lather up in. It's like taking a shower in the middle of a tropical jungle. Plus, if you're feeling contemplative, showers are a great place to get some thinking done. There's a reason we have the phrase "shower thoughts" to describe those bizarre ideas that come up only when we're in the shower.
[WATER RUNNING]
SUBJECT 1: If I'm at a restaurant waiting for the waiter, am I the waiter?
BOEN WANG: There's even science behind this phenomenon. When you're showering, you're stuck in a place without any distractions, doing a task that keeps your brain just engaged enough but doesn't require any active thinking, which is why your mind starts to wander and come up with weird stuff. But if you do want to do something engaging.
[WATER RUNNING]
(SINGING) You can sing in the shower. It always sounds amazing. Your voice gets so much power because it's reverberating.
Being in that small enclosed space makes your voice sound bold and booming. And showers create a lot of white noise, so you can sing in privacy. No need to feel embarrassed. So if you're feeling gross and want to get yourself clean, save the environment, have a good time while saving yourself some time, don't--
[HORROR STINGER]
--make yourself feel even grosser by taking a bath.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Instead, make yourself actually clean by taking a shower.
MOLLY BLOOM: A magnificent and musical argument there for showers. Elliot, what stood out to you about Boen's Declaration of Greatness?
ELLIOT: I appreciate the performance a lot, also the fearmongering.
[LAUGHTER]
BOEN WANG: I love fearmongering, yeah. Love negativity.
ELLIOT: Oh, yes.
BOEN WANG: It's what's good for this country.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Anna, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to prove why showers make for sorry soaking, and your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: Boen, Boen, Boen, first off, "body soup"? Sick. How dirty are you? Also, you said showers are relaxing, but who can relax when they're hearing this? [IMITATING WATER RUNNING] Plus, a shower might be fast, but it's limiting, it's joyless, it's mundane. When you take a bath, it's special, it's a treat. You can take a super long bath. You can watch a Netflix movie. You can watch four episodes of The Office. You know what you can do while you shower? Shower. That's it. You can't take a long shower and have a good conscience. You can't have bubble showers--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
BOEN WANG: You know what you can do in a shower? Listen to a great podcast, such as this one.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: That would have to be very loud.
BOEN WANG: [LAUGHS] Well, I don't know. Just turn it up. Anyway.
ANNA WEGGEL: Do you have a speaker in your shower?
BOEN WANG: My partner just puts their phone next to the shower, and then they just listen to NPR Up First. It's great. Anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Wow. I love it. OK.
BOEN WANG: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elliot, it is time to award some points. Please give 1 point to the Declaration of Greatness you like best and 1 point to the most awesome rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes win you over, or were you swayed by their killer logic? Both points could go to the same person, or each debater could get a point. Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ELLIOT: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Boen and Anna, how are you two feeling so far?
BOEN WANG: Feeling good, feeling really refreshed. How about yourself, Anna?
ANNA WEGGEL: Nervous.
[LAUGHTER]
I-- Elliot is smart and sassy.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: And I see myself in him.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right, well, take a moment to rinse and repeat.
ELLIOT: Because we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[THEME MUSIC]
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hey, hi, hello, debate besties. I'm Todd Douglas. I'm here with the wind beneath my wings, my bestie--
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Taylor Lincoln! And we're back again with another logical fallacy.
TODD DOUGLAS: Also known as a debate don't.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: They're debate techniques that lack reasoning.
TODD DOUGLAS: And they make your argument weaker. Today, we're tackling personal incredulity.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's when you say something can't be true because you personally can't believe it.
TODD DOUGLAS: And guess what? Even Mariel the Mermaid uses this fallacy. Check it out.
[UNDERWATER BUBBLING]
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Jesse, look at my latest treasure.
JESSE: Oh, looks like you found a fork.
MARIEL THE MERMAID: No, it's actually called a thingamabob.
JESSE: Oh, interesting. Well, we call it a fo--
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Don't be ridiculous. It's a thingamabob, and it's for combing your hair. See? It really gets all the kelp out. Great for a scalp massage, too. Works wonders for my sandruff.
JESSE: We actually use those things called hairbrushes to, well, brush our hair. And we use forks, or as you call them, thingamabobs, to eat our food.
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Jesse, don't be ridiculous. Thingamabobs are for combing hair, not eating. We don't need forks because mermaids, seagulls, and humans all eat the same way, by ferociously slurping the food and then spitting it into each other's mouths, like a mama bird feeds a baby bird. It's the only way.
JESSE: Oh, no, that's actually not how humans eat. Wait. Is that-- is that really how mermaids eat?
MARIEL THE MERMAID: What do you mean? What are we supposed to do? Pick up our food with our own fingers? Use these so-called forks? Chew it with our own teeth? Don't forget I'm a mermaid princess. You think I'm really going to chew my own food?
JESSE: What? Yes, that's exactly what I think.
MARIEL THE MERMAID: Jesse, don't be ridiculous. You baby bird your food like the rest of us. I simply cannot believe you'd, [SCOFFS] ew, eat with them. Thingamabobs are for brushing your hair, and that's it.
JESSE: Mariel, you're being ridiculous.
[BUZZING]
TODD DOUGLAS: OK, turns out down where it's wetter, not everything is better.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You got that right. Just because Mariel doesn't understand how forks work, or what they're called, that doesn't mean humans don't use them to eat.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right. You can't say something isn't true just because you don't understand it.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah. Also, I have so many questions. For starters, how can you baby bird your food when you're underwater?
TODD DOUGLAS: I'd really rather not.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Like, what's the physics of that? Because it really sounds like a mess.
TODD DOUGLAS: And look at that. It's time to go. Ah, shocks. Guess we'll have to discuss the merits of mermaid feeding another time, or hopefully never. Catch you next time on--
BOTH: State of Debate.
[THEME MUSIC]
[THEME MUSIC] Best Boom Smash. Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ELLIOT: And I'm your judge, Elliot.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this ferocious debate idea from Shri.
SHRI: Hi, my name is Shri, and my debate idea is tigers versus jaguars.
ELLIOT: Wow. I can't wait for that feline smackdown.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Shri at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ELLIOT: And now it's back to today's debate, baths versus showers.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right, and it's time for round 2, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro-Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: For the Micro-Round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. And Anna and Boen's prompt is called In a World. We asked them to make a movie trailer about a film featuring baths and showers, respectively. Anna went first last time, so Boen, you're up. Give us a sneak peek for the team showers' movie.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
BOEN WANG: In a postapocalyptic world, where there is no running water.
[INSECT BUZZING]
Where there are only pools of still water that have accumulated hundreds of years of filth and pollution.
[BUBBLING]
Where humans have turned into prune people. Their skin shriveled up from a lifetime of taking only baths.
SUBJECT 2: I desperately yearn for smooth skin but have only known pruniness my whole life.
BOEN WANG: Runny Refreshy refuses to give in.
RUNNY REFRESHY: There's got to be a better way. You guys, I read about something called The Last Shower. In a faraway land at the top of a sacred mountain, there's an actual stream of running refreshing water.
SUBJECT 2: Ugh, my goodness, if only that were true. What I would give to stop taking gross baths and take a shower with running refreshing water. Good luck, Runny Refreshy.
BOEN WANG: Runny goes on an epic quest across dangerous lands.
RUNNY REFRESHY: Oh geez, how much further till I can get out of this sludgy water?
BOEN WANG: Faces dastardly bath-loving monsters.
SUBJECT 3: Why don't you join me in this bath? We're ready.
RUNNY REFRESHY: Ew, get your disgusting bath water away from me.
BOEN WANG: To discover.
RUNNY REFRESHY: [GASPS] Could it be?
BOEN WANG: The Legend of The Last Shower. Rated S for Showers are so much better than baths.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
BOEN WANG: That's an Oscar winner right there. Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: I hope it's the first of a series of many Runny Refreshy movies. Whole franchise--
BOEN WANG: Franchise-material, yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: I can just tell. Definitely. All right, very nice work, Boen. Anna, please show us your bath blockbuster.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNA WEGGEL: From the creators of Splish-Splash, Give Me Cash and Underwater Bubble Trouble comes a new adventure that's sure to make a splash.
[WATER SPLASHING]
Meet Bubbles, a small and timid rubber ducky who's never worked up the courage to leave his own bathtub.
BUBBLES: I'm scared of everything.
ANNA WEGGEL: And Quackers, a brassy, adventurous duck who's ready to take the world by storm.
QUACKERS: I'm the fun one.
ANNA WEGGEL: When their worlds collide in the most unexpected way.
BUBBLES: I thought I was the only one in this bathtub.
QUACKERS: I'm baby's new toy. I'm the favorite.
BUBBLES: Oh, no, I'm being replaced.
QUACKERS: Nah, duck, you got a new ducky bestie.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bubbles and Quackers embark on a wild journey of self-discovery.
QUACKERS: [SCREAMS] Rough waters ahead!
BUBBLES: Hold your breath.
QUACKERS: This is so draining.
BUBBLES: I think I know how to get us out of this one. Hold my wing.
ANNA WEGGEL: And learn the true meaning of friendship.
QUACKERS: Bubbles, you saved my life.
BUBBLES: I didn't even know I was capable of such bath bravery.
ANNA WEGGEL: Get ready to soak up some fun with Bubbles and Quackers, coming soon to a bathtub-- I mean, theater near you.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] I love a buddy comedy. [LAUGHS] OK, Elliott, what did you like about Boen and Anna's Micro-Rounds?
ELLIOT: They were both really good and also kind of cliché.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: You're not wrong, my friend.
ELLIOT: For baths, I wrote down "friendship" but with a W as one of my notes, so I think that says something.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait. So that would be pronounced "fwendship"?
ELLIOT: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
[LAUGHTER]
ELLIOT: And then I'm glad the fearmongering was kept up throughout the showers one, too.
BOEN WANG: Absolutely. That's the theme.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] All right, Elliot, it is time to award a point. Don't tell us who it's going to. Again, the criteria are up to you. It could be the movie you'd like to see, maybe the movie that would bring in all the awards, maybe a movie that taught you something, a movie that made you laugh, a movie that made you think. Have you awarded your point?
ELLIOT: Yep.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then it's time for our third around, the super stealthy--
SUBJECTS: Ha-ha! Hoo-ha!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improv round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called Mystery Sound. Anna and Boen, we're going to give you a list of things related to your side, and you'll each have 30 seconds to get Elliott to guess as many mystery sounds from your list as you can. So if my side was smoothie, my first sound I might be trying to get Elliot to guess would be this. [IMITATING WHIRRING BLENDER]
ELLIOT: Blender?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, Elliot, yes! So we'll time you. We'll see how many of these sounds you can get through. Whoever gets Elliot to guess the most mystery sounds right wins. And if it's a tie, then it'll just be a tough call, and Elliot will decide who gets the point. Boen went first last time, so Anna, you're up. Let's hear your bath-inspired mystery sounds. Let's see how many of these you can get in 30 seconds. Your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SQUEAKING] Quack, quack.
ELLIOT: Rubber duck.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
ANNA WEGGEL: [GURGLING]
ELLIOT: Drain.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
ANNA WEGGEL: [SWISHING]
ELLIOT: Tap.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SWISHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You can pass if you need to.
ELLIOT: Water flowing out of the tap.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SWISHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ELLIOT: Sprinkler.
ANNA WEGGEL: [GURGLING]
ELLIOT: Drowning.
ANNA WEGGEL: [BLOWING A RASPBERRY]
ELLIOT: Wet sponge.
ANNA WEGGEL: [BLOWING A RASPBERRY, HISSING]
ELLIOT: Bath bomb?
MOLLY BLOOM: Time. Time! Time! Time!
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: I was so distracted by that sound. I was like in a trance for a second.
[LAUGHTER]
Really good guesses.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, so the last one was-- Anna, what were you trying to--
ANNA WEGGEL: It's lathering soap. The one that was like [IMITATING SQUISHY SOUND], it was slathering soap in your hands. And then the really hard one was just splash. Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: I did like your sponge guess.
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's excellent guess
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, so we successfully guessed two. Excellent work, Anna and Elliot. All right, Boen, it's your turn. Let's see how many sounds you can get Elliott to guess in 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
BOEN WANG: [IMITATING SWISHING SOUND]
ELLIOT: Showerhead. Sure, yeah, OK, next.
[LAUGHTER]
BOEN WANG: [WORDLESS SINGING]
ELLIOT: Singing in the shower.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
BOEN WANG: OK, let's try this one again. [IMITATING SWISHING SOUND]
ELLIOT: When you turn on the shower.
BOEN WANG: Yes.
[CORRECT ANSWER TONE]
Nice. OK, next one. [IMITATING SQUEAKY SOUND]
ELLIOT: Cleaning.
BOEN WANG: [CHORTLES] Cleaning?
MOLLY BLOOM: And time. [CHUCKLES]
BOEN WANG: OK. That's--
MOLLY BLOOM: All right.
BOEN WANG: --two and a half, right? I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, what was that last one do you think? Boen, can you tell Elliot what that last one was?
BOEN WANG: It was squeegeeing the wall, so cleaning kind of the-- I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: You did an excellent job. All right, so Elliot, it is a tie.
ELLIOT: Oh god.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you can decide if that cleaning is worth half a point. If it was zero points, whose sounds did you enjoy more? Who did it more quickly?
ELLIOT: (SINGING) Eeny, meeny, miny, moe. Catch the tiger by its toe. If it hollers, let it go. Eeny, meeny, miny-- OK, that one.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. [LAUGHS] All right, Elliot, have you awarded your fourth point?
ELLIOT: Yep.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then it's time for our final round.
[THEME MUSIC]
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Boen, you've got six words to sing the praises of showers. Why do showers reign supreme?
BOEN WANG: Guess what I'm doing tomorrow? Showering.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ELLIOT: Yeah, it's true.
MOLLY BLOOM: Elegant. Lovely. All right, Anna, your turn. Let's hear six words to prove baths are the better baby bather.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bath? More like path to happiness.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent.
BOEN WANG: I can concede that one. That's nice.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you--
[LAUGHTER]
--so much. I need it.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elliot, please award a final point for this Final Six. Have you awarded your final point?
ELLIOT: Yup
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Have you tallied them?
ELLIOT: Yep.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready to crown one team the smash boom best?
ELLIOT: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: Drum roll, please.
[DRUM ROLL]
And the winner is--
ELLIOT: Baths.
ANNA WEGGEL: [GASPS]
BOEN WANG: Oh, man.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SCREAMING]
BOEN WANG: Time to cry in the shower. That's what I'm doing tomorrow.
MOLLY BLOOM: You know what? Showers are an excellent place to cry, got to say. [LAUGHS] So Elliot, was there a one moment or something that really swung it for baths?
ELLIOT: Yeah, the most memorable part, honestly, was "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe."
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Rough luck of the draw.
[LAUGHTER]
I'll take it.
BOEN WANG: That's what life comes down to.
MOLLY BLOOM: That shows how close this debate was that "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe" had to be invoked. So excellent work to both you, Anna and Boen.
ANNA WEGGEL: Boen, I loved your performance today. I am a shower taker myself most days. Sure, I love it.
BOEN WANG: Anna, I loved your Declaration of Greatness. I love that you use tape of your daughter. It was very adorable and heartwarming. And I don't know. Maybe I should try taking some more baths, anyway.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you for calling the tape of my daughter heartwarming and not shameless.
[LAUGHTER]
That was really kind of you.
BOEN WANG: exploiting your child?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, for sure.
BOEN WANG: [CHUCKLES]
ANNA WEGGEL: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOEN WANG: She has a long career in podcasting starting now.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: This is why I had her.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Elliot crowned team baths the smash boom best, but what about you?
ELLIOT: Head to SmashBoom.org to vote and tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! and APM Studios.
BOEN WANG: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rose DuPont, Ruby Guthrie, and Aron Woldeslassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Derek Ramirez and Gary O'Keefe, with sound design by Marc Sanchez.
ANNA WEGGEL: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
BOEN WANG: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Molly Quinlan, Alex Simpson, Austin Cross, and Taylor Coffman. Boen, is there anyone you like to give a shout-out to today?
BOEN WANG: Yeah, special shout-out to Jed Kim for putting me in touch with the show and who I believe is like a-- has won many times, unlike me, and also to Rose for getting coffee with me that one time. We should do that again.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. And how about you, Anna? Are there any special shout-outs today?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes, I want to thank Elliot for making the correct decision today.
[LAUGHTER]
Even though it came down to "Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe," I'm cool with that. And I want to thank baby Luna for reintroducing me to the magic of baths after all these years.
MOLLY BLOOM: Baby Luna. And Elliot, do you want to give any special thanks?
ELLIOT: No, I think I did perfectly.
[LAUGHTER]
BOEN WANG: Me, too. Me, too.
ANNA WEGGEL: Correct.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we go, let's check in with Shri and see who he thinks should win his tiger versus jaguar debate.
SHRI: I think tigers would win because they're faster and stronger.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag-out debate? Head to SmashBoom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
BOEN WANG: See you later.
ELLIOT: Bye.
ANNA WEGGEL: This was so--
MOLLY BLOOM: Bye.
ANNA WEGGEL: --much fun.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, putting through the test. Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, better than the rest. You're the smash boom best. You're the smash boom best.
ELLIOT: Got to make sure it stays luxurious.
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