Godfrey Hibbert
Today’s debate is all about roarin’ flora. It’s redwood tree vs. prickly pear cactus! Tobin Mitnick – actor, writer, and creator of internet phenomenon jewslovestrees – rages for redwoods against comedian, writer, and actress Becky Abrams, who makes some pointed arguments in favor of prickly pears! Which photosynthesizer will take it all? Radical redwoods or persuasive pricklies?
Vote below to tell us who YOU think won!
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Audio Transcript
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SPEAKER 1: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
SPEAKER 2: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate stars some roar and flora. It's redwoods versus prickly pears. We've got actor, writer, and creator of internet phenomenon JewsLove Trees, Tobin Mitnick, here to rage for redwoods.
TOBIN MITNICK: This is no tall tale. We're taking it to great new heights with the tree MVP, the redwood.
MOLLY BLOOM: And comedian, writer, and actress Becky Abrams here to make some pointed arguments in favor of prickly pears.
BECKY ABRAMS: An apple a day keeps the doctor away, while a prickly pear keeps them gone for a year.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Elizabeth from New York, New York. This year, she was named in the New York City Poet Laureate. She competed in the 2018 National Spelling Bee, and she pulled a fire alarm in first grade because she'd never heard one before, and she wanted to know what it sounded like. Hi, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH: Hey, Molly. Wow, the prickly pear poem, the little couplet. I'm almost a little bit biased, but it's OK. I'll try-- I'm just teasing. I have no opinions until we start the debate.
TOBIN MITNICK: Lost already
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. I'm sure Tobin could bust out a rhyme if he needed to.
TOBIN MITNICK: Just to clarify with everybody, that didn't rhyme, Becky.
BECKY ABRAMS: I forced it, too, so it did.
TOBIN MITNICK: Keep it gong for a year.
ELIZABETH: Creative liberties.
MOLLY BLOOM: So speaking of poetry, Elizabeth, I hear you wrote a haiku inspired by this showdown. Would you mind sharing it with us?
ELIZABETH: Yeah, I would love to. This haiku is untitled, but it's about redwoods and prickly pear, so I'm pretty sure you can guess what the theme is. Two woods diverged in a road, one red, more tower than wood. One prickly, more pear than tree.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, now I know why you are the New York City Poet Laureate. Very, very impressive. What is your favorite type of poetry to write, or do you write all kinds?
ELIZABETH: That's an interesting question. I would say, free verse? Free verse poetry. I used to be really into rhyming. I started poetry when I was seven, so I used to rhyme a bunch. And I was also an aspiring Swifty, so, of course, I wanted to make it like song lyrics.
But now, I just prefer writing in free verse. Sometimes, I like to format it like a paragraph and use dashes in between, and play around with the form a little bit. But yeah, I just experiment with form.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. So it didn't really, really bother you that Becky's poem didn't rhyme?
ELIZABETH: No, no, no, it's fine. It's fine.
MOLLY BLOOM: To go back to our debate topic today, what do you know about redwoods? Have you ever seen one?
ELIZABETH: I know that California is famous for them, and they're in a lot of national parks. And they're extremely tall, I think, upwards of 200 feet. And the reason that they're called redwoods is because it has a reddish tint. It's not like Crimson, but it is a little bit red.
And the prickly pears aren't pears. They're cacti. And I was actually-- I was shopping for room decorations the other day, and I decided to adopt a plant. And so, I looked at prickly pears. They seem pretty cute. So I don't know. Maybe I'll get a prickly pear, too.
BECKY ABRAMS: I think that's a good idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. I know you're going to be an excellent judge. So will Elizabeth be taken by tremendous trees or persuaded by super cool cacti? There's no telling. Elizabeth, are you ready to judge this thing?
ELIZABETH: Yes. Yes, I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, then let's review the rules of the game. Round one is the declaration of greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side, and each will have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.
Then, we've got the micro round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round three is the sneak attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Our judge, Elizabeth, will award two points in the first round, one for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration she liked best. She'll award one point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Elizabeth, Tobin, and Becky, are you ready?
BECKY ABRAMS: Ready as I'll ever be.
TOBIN MITNICK: Redwood ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then, it's time for the--
SPEAKER 3: Declaration of greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin. And Tobin, you're up first. Tell us why redwoods are rad.
SPEAKER 4: I can't believe I'm finally on my way to see Hyperion, the world's tallest living tree. And hang on. Yes, I'm in range of my favorite radio station. Let's see what's on.
SPEAKER 5: You're listening to Forest Radio, 88.3 FM.
WOODY BARKLEY: Hey, hey, hey, folks. Woody Barkley here to announce the winner of our tremendous top 10. And the winner is redwoods. Yeah, baby. These trees are off the charts. Redwoods can grow up to 379 feet tall. That's 10 school buses stacked end to end.
Redwood bark is mega. It can be a foot thick. That tough bark comes in handy as protection from forest fires, which redwoods actually need. Wait, what? Well, get this. A fire burns off dead leaves and shrubs on the ground, which makes room for new redwood saplings to grow.
These giant trees take hundreds of years to reach full growth, and they can live up to 2,000 years. No rain? No problem. Redwoods can collect water from the sweet, sweet coastal California fog through tiny openings on their needles. Talk about thirsty. And last but not least, folks, redwoods help fight global warming.
Too much carbon dioxide in the air warms the planet, but coast redwoods can store more carbon dioxide than any other tree in the world. They keep that junk in their trunks. We have a winner, everybody. Give it up for redwoods.
SPEAKER 4: Yes, I knew it. But really, what other tree?
SPEAKER 5: You're listening to Forest Radio, 88.3 FM.
OWL ROKER: And we're back with habit tattletales, your source for the lowdown on forest living. I'm Al Roker. And this week, we ask redwoods. Are they worth the red? On the line now is Bertram Banana Slug. Bert, you're on the air.
BERT: Thanks so much, Owl. I got to tell you, the ground floor habitat in the redwood forests is primo real estate. It stays cool, and dark, and wet, so I don't get crisp to the summer heat. All my favorite foods are within oozing distance, and I can easily hide, so I don't get munched. It's the tops. I mean-- I mean, the bottom. It's the bottom of the tree. It's the bottom of the tree.
OWL ROKER: Excellent stuff, Bertie. Thanks for calling in. Stay slimy, my dude. Next on the line is Solomon, the wandering salamander. Sol, you're on the air.
SOLOMON: Hey, Owl. Listen, so redwood branches carry these amazing mats of moss and soil. I can be nice and high up in the tree, so I could feel that beautiful fog on my skin, but I can also feel secure with the moss under my toes. It's damp.
OWL ROKER: You're living the dream, Sol. Turns out, redwoods are great homes for lots of animals. We now turn it over to that mellow fellow, Holland Oaks, for your daily walk in the woods.
HOLLAND OAKS: Welcome to a walk in the woods. I am your host, Holland Oaks. Redwood forests is a cool tranquil place, where the warbling birds harmonize with the babbling streams. Among these forest giants, there are smaller redwoods pale in color.
These ghost redwoods were mysterious until recent research showed that their wood was full of toxic chemicals drawn in from the soil around them. Now, scientists believe that these trees store harmful chemicals to keep their fellow trees healthy.
In return, the healthy trees feed the ghost redwoods the supply of sugar to keep them going. Balance, tranquility, nourishment. We can all take a lesson from the redwoods. Come, follow me into the trees.
OWL ROKER: Holland, don't mind if I do.
SPEAKER 4: Hyperion, let's do this.
MOLLY BLOOM: A transporting declaration of greatness. I felt like I was there. Elizabeth, what stood out to you about Tobin's argument for redwoods?
ELIZABETH: I mean, I enjoyed the versatility of opinions, especially the Holland Oaks. I could fall asleep listening to his voice. And I didn't know that they were so effective at combatting global warming. And climate justice is something that's really important to me and, also, in general. So points for that.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Becky, it's time for your rebuttal. Poke some holes in Tobin's arguments. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
BECKY ABRAMS: OK, first of all, it sounds like redwoods create cool, dark, wet environments. Wow, my three favorite kinds of environments. Disgusting. They fight global warming. I would love them to fight a little bit harder. We're losing this war. And finally, what is big, old, and red besides a redwood tree? I don't know, Clifford the geriatric dog? Maybe my mom's 1998 Chrysler minivan, or maybe Andre, the Giants' Jim Schwartz. It's all I got.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
BECKY ABRAMS: I came in early.
TOBIN MITNICK: I'm so proud of you for getting in an Andre the Giant reference back then.
BECKY ABRAMS: I did that for you.
TOBIN MITNICK: I know.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Becky, let's hear what else you have to say. Tell us why prickly pear cactus are the pinnacle of perfection.
BECKY ABRAMS: The desert, it's rough. Too hot for most plants during the day, too cold at night. You have to be super tough to survive out here. And I don't know, I don't think I can-- wait. In the distance, is that the prickly pear oasis?
Prickly pear cacti are tough, desert-loving plants that look like a cloud of green ping pong paddles covered in spikes. They thrive in dry, warm climates, like the Southwest, but they can also be found in places, like the West Indies, the Mediterranean, and even Canada.
You can eat their red fruit called tuna in Spanish, as well as their green nopallis or pads, if you remove their pickers. They're known for being culinary delights, super heroes of healing, and miracle survivors. Come on, I'll show you. Here we are at the oasis, surrounded by prickly pear cacti. Plenty of regulars around these parts, grabbing some shade and a bite to eat. You've got iguanas.
IGUANA: The inside of my mouth is so tough. I eat the spikes.
BECKY ABRAMS: Kangaroo rats.
KANGAROO RAT: We're not really kangaroos.
BECKY ABRAMS: The hometown hero, prickly pear island snail.
SNAIL: We're only 10 millimeter long.
BECKY ABRAMS: And beetles.
BEETLES: We love to eat prickly pear fruit.
BECKY ABRAMS: The cochineal beetles are my favorite. They're round, little bugs that eat the prickly pear's red fruit. Humans have been harvesting these bugs and using them to make red dye for over 600 years. You can find the dye in everything from ketchup, to lipstick, to rugs, and these little bugg-o's wouldn't be ready at all if they didn't snack on prickly pear tunas.
Turns out, tunas aren't just yummy snacks for beetles. Humans eat them, too. And they have a ton of health benefits. I talked with an expert to find out more.
FELICIA COCOTZON RUIZ: My name is Felicia Cocotzin Ruiz, and I'm an author and a curandera.
BECKY ABRAMS: A curandera is a traditional healer from Spain or Latin America, and they know all about the healing powers of the prickly pear cactus.
FELICIA COCOTZON RUIZ: I always tell people, this is one of the best plants that they can eat to help with their digestion and get more fiber in their body. And it's also full of antioxidants, so it's a really good plant that you can eat that has a lot of vitamins, and minerals, and things that are just really good for your overall health.
BECKY ABRAMS: Because of its high levels of antioxidants, and vitamins, and minerals, and stuff, scientists say prickly pear cactus might be helpful for treating various diseases, like diabetes, obesity, skin wounds, cardiovascular disease, and even cancer.
Not only are prickly pear cacti healers, they're miracle survivors. They store water in their leaves and photosynthesize at night, which makes them specially designed to survive climate change. The hotter it is, the more plants need to hang on to all the water they can. So cacti wait until night time to open up the tiny holes in their leaves to collect carbon dioxide.
In a world that's getting hotter and hotter every year, plants that can thrive in the desert are king. I don't know about you, but at this point, I'd like to try a prickly pear myself. It sounds magical, but how does it taste? And will it cure my every ailment?
Only one way to find out-- a taste test. I like to taste foods I've never encountered before, and prickly pear seems like a wild ride. I just received some prickly pear candy as a gift from my friend, Lee. So here goes nothing. It's a beautiful color. It's a giant square, dipped in sugar. It looks divine. I'm registering a very light smell. And now, the taste.
Yummy. That's so good. It tastes like strawberry and watermelon combine. Like if mixed berry were actually super duper good and not just mixed berry. No offense to mixed berry heads out there. Prickly pear is delicious. And how does it make me feel? Well, I feel like the king of the plants.
MOLLY BLOOM: A delicious declaration of greatness right there. Elizabeth, what stood out to you about Becky's argument?
ELIZABETH: Well, as someone who enjoys food, I enjoyed the part at the end with the taste test. And also, just that it is found in the Southwest America and Canada, that's really cool. I don't know if redwood can say that. I don't think there's a Redwood in Alaska. But I also enjoy--
TOBIN MITNICK: Shots fired.
MOLLY BLOOM: I can hear Tobin seething in the background.
TOBIN MITNICK: Seething? No, I'm just kidding. I'm just absorbing. No, I'm just listening, absorbing, listening, absorbing.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Tobin, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to crush Becky's declaration, and your time starts now.
TOBIN MITNICK: OK, well, first of all, Becky's arguments, I mean, they sounded like a bunch of cactus to me. So the first thing I want to talk about is the question of climate change. And if we're talking about carbon storage and carbon sequestering, redwoods do more of it than any other tree on the planet.
I don't think that prickly pears can say the same thing. Sorry, prickly pear, we need to protect as many redwoods as possible. Also, Becky, isn't it true that prickly pears are considered invasive in some of the places that they've spread to? I believe, in Australia, they outlawed the planting of prickly pears at some point.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
TOBIN MITNICK: Oh, no, I have five more. Terrible.
MOLLY BLOOM: 30 seconds goes by quickly.
BECKY ABRAMS: Fair points. Very fair points. I'm going to have to look up that carbon storage and get back to you.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elizabeth, it's time to award some points. You're going to give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the most compelling rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one side win you over with their razor sharp arguments? Did another make you laugh big time? The criteria is up to you. Both points could go to the same person, or each person could get one point. Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ELIZABETH: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Tobin and Becky, how are you feeling so far?
TOBIN MITNICK: I've never been more confident, Molly. Just I'm chilling out. It's like I'm looking down from 30,000 feet over here.
BECKY ABRAMS: And I'm so riding high on that delicious prickly pear flavor.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, well, it's time for a quick break. Let's take a second to nosh on some nopallis or breathe deep beneath the redwood.
ELIZABETH: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
SPEAKER 1: You're watching state of debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: It's me, Todd Douglas, hanging out with my number one debate dudette, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, there, busy bees. Have we got a logical fallacy for you.
TODD DOUGLAS: Logical fallacies are debate mistakes that sting.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And today, we're talking about the straw man fallacy. It's when you take what another person said and blow it way out of proportion.
TODD DOUGLAS: Let's head on over to my grandma's garden and listen to this bumblebees' fallacy fumble.
BEE 1: These black-eyed Susans are my favorite flower. They have the best nectar. They're way more tasty than those petunias over there.
BEE 2: You think petunias are terrible flowers?
BEE 1: That's not what I said.
BEE 2: You probably think snapdragons are terrible, too.
BEE 1: Oh, I'm just saying--
BEE 2: So you hate all flowers except black-eyed Susans. OK, I see what kind of bee you are.
TODD DOUGLAS: Buzz, buzz, boo.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That bee didn't listen to their friend.
TODD DOUGLAS: And they exaggerated what their friend was saying.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You all just saw a straw man fallacy in action.
TODD DOUGLAS: Don't do it, friends. Respond to what your opponent is actually saying. Otherwise, you'll seem like a blustering meanie, and your argument will be easy to tear apart.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's all for now. We'll catch you next time on state of debate.
GROUP: Boom, boom, boom. Boom. Boom, boom, boom. Boom. Boom. Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ELIZABETH: And I'm your judge, Elizabeth.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elizabeth, how is it going? Are you enjoying the debate so far?
ELIZABETH: Oh, yeah, this is riveting. I love the different presentation forms. It's like-- are you guys all theater-- you guys give me theater kids vibes.
TOBIN MITNICK: Oh. Are we all theater kids?
BECKY ABRAMS: Yes. Theater kids, unite.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we jump back in, I want to showcase an awesome debate suggestion from one of our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Ben in Columbia, Maryland.
BEN: My idea for debate is tape versus glue.
ELIZABETH: Now, that's an idea that could get stuck in your head.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Ben at the end of the episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ELIZABETH: And now, it's back to today's debate-- redwoods versus prickly pears.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right, and it's time for round two, the--
SPEAKER 3: Micro round.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's micro round challenge is in a world. We asked you to pick a movie genre-- thriller, romance, mystery, and write a trailer for your side in that style. Tobin went first last time, so Becky, you're up. Let's hear your movie trailer for prickly pears.
NARRATOR: Tom Ato had it all. President of his garden, captain of the vegetable team, and dating Lily Pad, the most popular plant in school. That is until she dumped him for Douglas Fir.
LILY PAD: Douglas is so cool. He's evergreen.
NARRATOR: In order to save his reputation, Tom's taken on an impossible bet.
You've got one week to turn prickly pear into the most popular plant at Flora High.
TOM ATO: Prickly Pear? But she's got spikes and hangs out with bugs and lizards.
NARRATOR: With one week till senior prom, Tom's got his work cut out for him.
PRICKLY PEAR: I don't care about popularity. I'd rather develop new types of biofuel that help cut pollution than sit around vegging out.
TOM ATO: Hey, Prickley. You do photosynthesize at night, right?
PRICKLY PEAR: Yeah?
TOM ATO: Do you think you could teach me to do that? But on a date tonight?
Dang, dude. Prickly is looking sharp. She's cooler than I ever imagined. Did you know oil pressed from her seeds can help fight skin infections?
LILY PAD: How is she more popular than me? It's time to put a stop to this. Hey, Prickly, you know everyone thinks you're a joke, right? You're spikes make you look like a medieval torture device. It's so sad.
PRICKLY PEAR: Is that what you all think of me? I knew I shouldn't trust a bouquet of jerks like you.
TOM ATO: Wait, Prickly, you're still going to senior prom with me, right?
NARRATOR: Looks like it only took a week for Tom Ato to figure out Prickly is all that.
MOLLY BLOOM: I would definitely watch that movie. Major high school rom-com vibes.
TOBIN MITNICK: That was so good, Becky.
BECKY ABRAMS: Thank you.
TOBIN MITNICK: Tobin, it's your turn. Convince us to watch redwoods' next hot flick.
NARRATOR: At the top of the tallest tree in the world,
JOJO: I'm so happy we're climbing Hyperion, Jimmy.
JIMMY: Me, too, JoJo, all 380 feet of it. Yeah, this is cool.
NARRATOR: Someone is taking evil to new heights.
MR. SQUIRREL: You know what, I'm sick and tired of being the friendliest squirrel in the Redwood Forest. Let's play a little game called chew through the ropes of the unsuspecting tourists.
JOJO: Hey, whoa, not Mr. Henry Squirrel.
JIMMY: Come on help us. Help. We're in the tree. Help. Someone.
JOJO: Someone help us.
JIMMY: Help us.
NARRATOR: There's only one man who can save them.
SPEAKER 5: Bruce Climber, we need your help. It says here your ex National Forest Special Forces.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Hyperion, eh? That's one tall drink of water-absorbing stomata. But I'm too old for a mission like this.
SPEAKER 5: Mr. Climber, it's your daughter up there.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Consider that squirrel roadkill. Papa is coming, JoJo.
NARRATOR: But it won't be easy. This evil squirrel is leafing nothing to chance.
MR. SQUIRREL: You use helicopter? I drop them.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Hang tight, JoJo.
JIMMY: Dad, come save us.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Jimmy, for the last time, just because you're dating my daughter, doesn't make me your dad.
MR. SQUIRREL: Let's see how you like a rain of redwood cones, Climber.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Don't worry, I got you.
MR. SQUIRREL: It looks like you're barking up the wrong tree, Climber.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Fact is, you glorified squeak toy, I don't bark. I bite.
NARRATOR: This Arbor day, adventure takes root in the new movie, Hyperion.
MOLLY BLOOM: I am on the edge of my seat. Unhinged squirrel villain, oh, very, very good.
TOBIN MITNICK: I hope you guys know, I'm carrying through with the screenwriting of this exact film now. I'll have to whittle it down from its current 493 pages.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elizabeth, what stood out to you about Becky and Tobin's trailers?
ELIZABETH: I thought Becky's was sweet. And if I could give points for puns, I would give a lot to Becky. I just like-- the names themselves were just amazing.
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh, my God, I'm blushing.
ELIZABETH: Yeah, I want there to be a scene at the end, where like Prickly Pear realizes her true worth, and, I don't know, stab someone with one of her cactus needles. And also, Hyperion is a really cool name.
No, I like the variety of characters. And also, the squirrel fellow seems like a very, very interesting villain. And I'm hoping he gets a redemption arc. Because the only thing better than a villain is an anti-hero.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, in the Hyperion trilogy that Tobin is now writing, I'm sure there'll be plenty of time.
TOBIN MITNICK: It's a quadrilogy, quadrilogy, tetralogy. All right, Elizabeth, it's time to award a point. Again, the criteria is up to you. Did someone make a trailer of a movie you really want to see? Did they drop some facts in there? Did they make you laugh? Have you made your decision?
ELIZABETH: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then, it's time for our third around, the super stealthy--
SPEAKER 3: Sneak attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your sneak attack is sentence by sentence. This challenge requires a little teamwork. Tobin and Becky, we want you to build a story together, and it has to involve both of your sides. You'll each get three sentences to build this story from the ground up, and you'll go back and forth, taking turns, sentence by sentence, until the story is done, except we only have six sentences to finish that story. Does that make sense?
TOBIN MITNICK: Sure.
BECKY ABRAMS: Yes, indeed.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Becky went first last time, so, Tobin, you get to start. Treat us to the first sentence of this fabulous tale.
TOBIN MITNICK: The other day, I was walking through the woods, and the funniest thing happened. I saw a redwood in front of me.
BECKY ABRAMS: But the redwood had a face, and the face was looking at me and going like, look at this guy. Period.
TOBIN MITNICK: As you can probably tell, I was weirded out. So I looked at the redwood, and I said, look, I know I look weird to you, but you look weird to me because you're a face on a tree.
BECKY ABRAMS: It was at that moment that we reached an impasse. We weren't going to change our minds on each other. So what we did was, we spent the afternoon just talking and getting to know each other. And it turns out, the redwood with a face on it is pretty cool.
TOBIN MITNICK: We were having such a good time that the weird redwood face decided to take a prickly pear that he had previously made a delicious refreshing tropical drink out of and split it with me. He said, I don't need all of it. I imbibed.
BECKY ABRAMS: And boy, oh, boy, was it the most delicious flavor I have ever encountered in my entire life. The redwood with a weird face on it agreed that this was truly the king of all plants, the prickly pear.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, wow. Wow, that was amazing. A tale of friendship and teamwork, very, very beautiful. Just as beautiful as Becky and Tobin's real-life friendship. Elizabeth, it's time to award your fourth point. Have you made your decision?
ELIZABETH: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then, it's time for our final round.
SPEAKER 3: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Becky, you've got just six more words to persuade Elizabeth that your cacti are captivating.
BECKY ABRAMS: Survival of the fittest and spikiest.
MOLLY BLOOM: Tobin, it's your last chance to branch out and convince Elizabeth that the redwood is king.
TOBIN MITNICK: Redwood, I would, so would you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, two excellent final sixes. OK, Elizabeth, it's time to award the point for this final round. Elizabeth, have you awarded a point for the final six?
ELIZABETH: Yes, I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: And then, have you tallied up the points, and are you ready to dub one team the Smash Boom Best?
ELIZABETH: Oh, this is so close.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, I'm going to do a drum roll.
BECKY ABRAMS: Please, please, please.
TOBIN MITNICK: I never wanted something so bad.
MOLLY BLOOM: And the winner is--
ELIZABETH: Redwoods.
TOBIN MITNICK: All I want to just feel this way. Yeah. All right, redwoods. Bring it on, baby.
BECKY ABRAMS: All right. All right. That's fair.
TOBIN MITNICK: I just spiked that ball in the end zone.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elizabeth, was there a moment that decided things. You're like, what really put redwoods over the top?
ELIZABETH: The six words. That was-- like out of all the puns, that was one of the best.
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh.
TOBIN MITNICK: Oh, my gosh.
BECKY ABRAMS: Well done.
TOBIN MITNICK: Becky, I loved how you took what on the surface is in an incredibly difficult underdog position. But what you chose to do was make a comic meal out of it.
BECKY ABRAMS: Tobin, wow. My friend, my brother, my rock, that movie trailer that you did was, by far, the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. It was Taken meets some sort of forest movie. I love the line, papa's coming, JoJo. I wrote down lines from your trailer. So I was super impressed by just how fun that was, and I'm astounded at how much I want that to become a real movie. So please do write it.
TOBIN MITNICK: OK, I'm on page 700 right now. I've been writing during our entire debate.
BECKY ABRAMS: Excellent.
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Elizabeth crowned redwoods the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ELIZABETH: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.
BECKY ABRAMS: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie DuPont, and Ruby Guthrie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Jess Berg, Gary O'Keefe, and Charlton Thorpe.
TOBIN MITNICK: Our editors are Shayla Farzon and Sanden Totten.
BECKY ABRAMS: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, and Nico Gonzalez Wessler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Pravadi, Alex Shaffer, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Brant Miller, Eric Wrangham, Andy Doucette, Ryan Perez, Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, Jeff Cook, and Alex Simpson. Tobin, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
TOBIN MITNICK: Yeah, I want to give a shout out to people. The first one I want to give a shout out to is Hannah, who helped me craft an amazing declaration of greatness. Thank you so much, Anna. And also, my daughter Lucy who's going to see the redwoods for the first time next week. So that's going to be freaking awesome.
MOLLY BLOOM: Amazing. How about you, Becky, any thanks or shout outs?
BECKY ABRAMS: Well, you know, mine just got taken. I was going to shout out Lucy as well, Tobin's beautiful daughter. But now, I'll take the opportunity to shout out all of the little kids that I babysit and am related to. I love you guys so much.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Elizabeth, how about you? Any special thanks?
ELIZABETH: Well, first of all, you guys are inviting me on the podcast. Thank you so much. And second, I would like to thank my family, blood and found family, because they're awesome. And they give good hugs, and I love hugging people. Apparently, eight hugs a day is the required amount to keep you happy. And so, this is a reminder to go hug somebody.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, I love that. That's the best way to end this episode. But before we go, we have one more thing to do. Let's check in with Ben and see who he thinks would win his tape versus glue debate.
BEN: I think tape would win because it doesn't need to dry, and glue needs to dry.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown, drag-out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
TOBIN MITNICK: Peace out, everyone.
BECKY ABRAMS: So long, everybody.
SINGER: (SINGING) Oh, put it through the test. Oh, you have a smash boom best. It's a smash boom best. It's a smash boom best.
ELIZABETH: I think my favorite part was that the redwood was a character, and the prickly pear just gets eaten.
SPEAKER 2: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate stars some roar and flora. It's redwoods versus prickly pears. We've got actor, writer, and creator of internet phenomenon JewsLove Trees, Tobin Mitnick, here to rage for redwoods.
TOBIN MITNICK: This is no tall tale. We're taking it to great new heights with the tree MVP, the redwood.
MOLLY BLOOM: And comedian, writer, and actress Becky Abrams here to make some pointed arguments in favor of prickly pears.
BECKY ABRAMS: An apple a day keeps the doctor away, while a prickly pear keeps them gone for a year.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Elizabeth from New York, New York. This year, she was named in the New York City Poet Laureate. She competed in the 2018 National Spelling Bee, and she pulled a fire alarm in first grade because she'd never heard one before, and she wanted to know what it sounded like. Hi, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH: Hey, Molly. Wow, the prickly pear poem, the little couplet. I'm almost a little bit biased, but it's OK. I'll try-- I'm just teasing. I have no opinions until we start the debate.
TOBIN MITNICK: Lost already
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. I'm sure Tobin could bust out a rhyme if he needed to.
TOBIN MITNICK: Just to clarify with everybody, that didn't rhyme, Becky.
BECKY ABRAMS: I forced it, too, so it did.
TOBIN MITNICK: Keep it gong for a year.
ELIZABETH: Creative liberties.
MOLLY BLOOM: So speaking of poetry, Elizabeth, I hear you wrote a haiku inspired by this showdown. Would you mind sharing it with us?
ELIZABETH: Yeah, I would love to. This haiku is untitled, but it's about redwoods and prickly pear, so I'm pretty sure you can guess what the theme is. Two woods diverged in a road, one red, more tower than wood. One prickly, more pear than tree.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, now I know why you are the New York City Poet Laureate. Very, very impressive. What is your favorite type of poetry to write, or do you write all kinds?
ELIZABETH: That's an interesting question. I would say, free verse? Free verse poetry. I used to be really into rhyming. I started poetry when I was seven, so I used to rhyme a bunch. And I was also an aspiring Swifty, so, of course, I wanted to make it like song lyrics.
But now, I just prefer writing in free verse. Sometimes, I like to format it like a paragraph and use dashes in between, and play around with the form a little bit. But yeah, I just experiment with form.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. So it didn't really, really bother you that Becky's poem didn't rhyme?
ELIZABETH: No, no, no, it's fine. It's fine.
MOLLY BLOOM: To go back to our debate topic today, what do you know about redwoods? Have you ever seen one?
ELIZABETH: I know that California is famous for them, and they're in a lot of national parks. And they're extremely tall, I think, upwards of 200 feet. And the reason that they're called redwoods is because it has a reddish tint. It's not like Crimson, but it is a little bit red.
And the prickly pears aren't pears. They're cacti. And I was actually-- I was shopping for room decorations the other day, and I decided to adopt a plant. And so, I looked at prickly pears. They seem pretty cute. So I don't know. Maybe I'll get a prickly pear, too.
BECKY ABRAMS: I think that's a good idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. I know you're going to be an excellent judge. So will Elizabeth be taken by tremendous trees or persuaded by super cool cacti? There's no telling. Elizabeth, are you ready to judge this thing?
ELIZABETH: Yes. Yes, I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, then let's review the rules of the game. Round one is the declaration of greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side, and each will have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.
Then, we've got the micro round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round three is the sneak attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Our judge, Elizabeth, will award two points in the first round, one for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration she liked best. She'll award one point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Elizabeth, Tobin, and Becky, are you ready?
BECKY ABRAMS: Ready as I'll ever be.
TOBIN MITNICK: Redwood ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then, it's time for the--
SPEAKER 3: Declaration of greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin. And Tobin, you're up first. Tell us why redwoods are rad.
SPEAKER 4: I can't believe I'm finally on my way to see Hyperion, the world's tallest living tree. And hang on. Yes, I'm in range of my favorite radio station. Let's see what's on.
SPEAKER 5: You're listening to Forest Radio, 88.3 FM.
WOODY BARKLEY: Hey, hey, hey, folks. Woody Barkley here to announce the winner of our tremendous top 10. And the winner is redwoods. Yeah, baby. These trees are off the charts. Redwoods can grow up to 379 feet tall. That's 10 school buses stacked end to end.
Redwood bark is mega. It can be a foot thick. That tough bark comes in handy as protection from forest fires, which redwoods actually need. Wait, what? Well, get this. A fire burns off dead leaves and shrubs on the ground, which makes room for new redwood saplings to grow.
These giant trees take hundreds of years to reach full growth, and they can live up to 2,000 years. No rain? No problem. Redwoods can collect water from the sweet, sweet coastal California fog through tiny openings on their needles. Talk about thirsty. And last but not least, folks, redwoods help fight global warming.
Too much carbon dioxide in the air warms the planet, but coast redwoods can store more carbon dioxide than any other tree in the world. They keep that junk in their trunks. We have a winner, everybody. Give it up for redwoods.
SPEAKER 4: Yes, I knew it. But really, what other tree?
SPEAKER 5: You're listening to Forest Radio, 88.3 FM.
OWL ROKER: And we're back with habit tattletales, your source for the lowdown on forest living. I'm Al Roker. And this week, we ask redwoods. Are they worth the red? On the line now is Bertram Banana Slug. Bert, you're on the air.
BERT: Thanks so much, Owl. I got to tell you, the ground floor habitat in the redwood forests is primo real estate. It stays cool, and dark, and wet, so I don't get crisp to the summer heat. All my favorite foods are within oozing distance, and I can easily hide, so I don't get munched. It's the tops. I mean-- I mean, the bottom. It's the bottom of the tree. It's the bottom of the tree.
OWL ROKER: Excellent stuff, Bertie. Thanks for calling in. Stay slimy, my dude. Next on the line is Solomon, the wandering salamander. Sol, you're on the air.
SOLOMON: Hey, Owl. Listen, so redwood branches carry these amazing mats of moss and soil. I can be nice and high up in the tree, so I could feel that beautiful fog on my skin, but I can also feel secure with the moss under my toes. It's damp.
OWL ROKER: You're living the dream, Sol. Turns out, redwoods are great homes for lots of animals. We now turn it over to that mellow fellow, Holland Oaks, for your daily walk in the woods.
HOLLAND OAKS: Welcome to a walk in the woods. I am your host, Holland Oaks. Redwood forests is a cool tranquil place, where the warbling birds harmonize with the babbling streams. Among these forest giants, there are smaller redwoods pale in color.
These ghost redwoods were mysterious until recent research showed that their wood was full of toxic chemicals drawn in from the soil around them. Now, scientists believe that these trees store harmful chemicals to keep their fellow trees healthy.
In return, the healthy trees feed the ghost redwoods the supply of sugar to keep them going. Balance, tranquility, nourishment. We can all take a lesson from the redwoods. Come, follow me into the trees.
OWL ROKER: Holland, don't mind if I do.
SPEAKER 4: Hyperion, let's do this.
MOLLY BLOOM: A transporting declaration of greatness. I felt like I was there. Elizabeth, what stood out to you about Tobin's argument for redwoods?
ELIZABETH: I mean, I enjoyed the versatility of opinions, especially the Holland Oaks. I could fall asleep listening to his voice. And I didn't know that they were so effective at combatting global warming. And climate justice is something that's really important to me and, also, in general. So points for that.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Becky, it's time for your rebuttal. Poke some holes in Tobin's arguments. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
BECKY ABRAMS: OK, first of all, it sounds like redwoods create cool, dark, wet environments. Wow, my three favorite kinds of environments. Disgusting. They fight global warming. I would love them to fight a little bit harder. We're losing this war. And finally, what is big, old, and red besides a redwood tree? I don't know, Clifford the geriatric dog? Maybe my mom's 1998 Chrysler minivan, or maybe Andre, the Giants' Jim Schwartz. It's all I got.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
BECKY ABRAMS: I came in early.
TOBIN MITNICK: I'm so proud of you for getting in an Andre the Giant reference back then.
BECKY ABRAMS: I did that for you.
TOBIN MITNICK: I know.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Becky, let's hear what else you have to say. Tell us why prickly pear cactus are the pinnacle of perfection.
BECKY ABRAMS: The desert, it's rough. Too hot for most plants during the day, too cold at night. You have to be super tough to survive out here. And I don't know, I don't think I can-- wait. In the distance, is that the prickly pear oasis?
Prickly pear cacti are tough, desert-loving plants that look like a cloud of green ping pong paddles covered in spikes. They thrive in dry, warm climates, like the Southwest, but they can also be found in places, like the West Indies, the Mediterranean, and even Canada.
You can eat their red fruit called tuna in Spanish, as well as their green nopallis or pads, if you remove their pickers. They're known for being culinary delights, super heroes of healing, and miracle survivors. Come on, I'll show you. Here we are at the oasis, surrounded by prickly pear cacti. Plenty of regulars around these parts, grabbing some shade and a bite to eat. You've got iguanas.
IGUANA: The inside of my mouth is so tough. I eat the spikes.
BECKY ABRAMS: Kangaroo rats.
KANGAROO RAT: We're not really kangaroos.
BECKY ABRAMS: The hometown hero, prickly pear island snail.
SNAIL: We're only 10 millimeter long.
BECKY ABRAMS: And beetles.
BEETLES: We love to eat prickly pear fruit.
BECKY ABRAMS: The cochineal beetles are my favorite. They're round, little bugs that eat the prickly pear's red fruit. Humans have been harvesting these bugs and using them to make red dye for over 600 years. You can find the dye in everything from ketchup, to lipstick, to rugs, and these little bugg-o's wouldn't be ready at all if they didn't snack on prickly pear tunas.
Turns out, tunas aren't just yummy snacks for beetles. Humans eat them, too. And they have a ton of health benefits. I talked with an expert to find out more.
FELICIA COCOTZON RUIZ: My name is Felicia Cocotzin Ruiz, and I'm an author and a curandera.
BECKY ABRAMS: A curandera is a traditional healer from Spain or Latin America, and they know all about the healing powers of the prickly pear cactus.
FELICIA COCOTZON RUIZ: I always tell people, this is one of the best plants that they can eat to help with their digestion and get more fiber in their body. And it's also full of antioxidants, so it's a really good plant that you can eat that has a lot of vitamins, and minerals, and things that are just really good for your overall health.
BECKY ABRAMS: Because of its high levels of antioxidants, and vitamins, and minerals, and stuff, scientists say prickly pear cactus might be helpful for treating various diseases, like diabetes, obesity, skin wounds, cardiovascular disease, and even cancer.
Not only are prickly pear cacti healers, they're miracle survivors. They store water in their leaves and photosynthesize at night, which makes them specially designed to survive climate change. The hotter it is, the more plants need to hang on to all the water they can. So cacti wait until night time to open up the tiny holes in their leaves to collect carbon dioxide.
In a world that's getting hotter and hotter every year, plants that can thrive in the desert are king. I don't know about you, but at this point, I'd like to try a prickly pear myself. It sounds magical, but how does it taste? And will it cure my every ailment?
Only one way to find out-- a taste test. I like to taste foods I've never encountered before, and prickly pear seems like a wild ride. I just received some prickly pear candy as a gift from my friend, Lee. So here goes nothing. It's a beautiful color. It's a giant square, dipped in sugar. It looks divine. I'm registering a very light smell. And now, the taste.
Yummy. That's so good. It tastes like strawberry and watermelon combine. Like if mixed berry were actually super duper good and not just mixed berry. No offense to mixed berry heads out there. Prickly pear is delicious. And how does it make me feel? Well, I feel like the king of the plants.
MOLLY BLOOM: A delicious declaration of greatness right there. Elizabeth, what stood out to you about Becky's argument?
ELIZABETH: Well, as someone who enjoys food, I enjoyed the part at the end with the taste test. And also, just that it is found in the Southwest America and Canada, that's really cool. I don't know if redwood can say that. I don't think there's a Redwood in Alaska. But I also enjoy--
TOBIN MITNICK: Shots fired.
MOLLY BLOOM: I can hear Tobin seething in the background.
TOBIN MITNICK: Seething? No, I'm just kidding. I'm just absorbing. No, I'm just listening, absorbing, listening, absorbing.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Tobin, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to crush Becky's declaration, and your time starts now.
TOBIN MITNICK: OK, well, first of all, Becky's arguments, I mean, they sounded like a bunch of cactus to me. So the first thing I want to talk about is the question of climate change. And if we're talking about carbon storage and carbon sequestering, redwoods do more of it than any other tree on the planet.
I don't think that prickly pears can say the same thing. Sorry, prickly pear, we need to protect as many redwoods as possible. Also, Becky, isn't it true that prickly pears are considered invasive in some of the places that they've spread to? I believe, in Australia, they outlawed the planting of prickly pears at some point.
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
TOBIN MITNICK: Oh, no, I have five more. Terrible.
MOLLY BLOOM: 30 seconds goes by quickly.
BECKY ABRAMS: Fair points. Very fair points. I'm going to have to look up that carbon storage and get back to you.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elizabeth, it's time to award some points. You're going to give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the most compelling rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one side win you over with their razor sharp arguments? Did another make you laugh big time? The criteria is up to you. Both points could go to the same person, or each person could get one point. Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ELIZABETH: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Tobin and Becky, how are you feeling so far?
TOBIN MITNICK: I've never been more confident, Molly. Just I'm chilling out. It's like I'm looking down from 30,000 feet over here.
BECKY ABRAMS: And I'm so riding high on that delicious prickly pear flavor.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, well, it's time for a quick break. Let's take a second to nosh on some nopallis or breathe deep beneath the redwood.
ELIZABETH: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
SPEAKER 1: You're watching state of debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: It's me, Todd Douglas, hanging out with my number one debate dudette, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, there, busy bees. Have we got a logical fallacy for you.
TODD DOUGLAS: Logical fallacies are debate mistakes that sting.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And today, we're talking about the straw man fallacy. It's when you take what another person said and blow it way out of proportion.
TODD DOUGLAS: Let's head on over to my grandma's garden and listen to this bumblebees' fallacy fumble.
BEE 1: These black-eyed Susans are my favorite flower. They have the best nectar. They're way more tasty than those petunias over there.
BEE 2: You think petunias are terrible flowers?
BEE 1: That's not what I said.
BEE 2: You probably think snapdragons are terrible, too.
BEE 1: Oh, I'm just saying--
BEE 2: So you hate all flowers except black-eyed Susans. OK, I see what kind of bee you are.
TODD DOUGLAS: Buzz, buzz, boo.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That bee didn't listen to their friend.
TODD DOUGLAS: And they exaggerated what their friend was saying.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You all just saw a straw man fallacy in action.
TODD DOUGLAS: Don't do it, friends. Respond to what your opponent is actually saying. Otherwise, you'll seem like a blustering meanie, and your argument will be easy to tear apart.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's all for now. We'll catch you next time on state of debate.
GROUP: Boom, boom, boom. Boom. Boom, boom, boom. Boom. Boom. Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ELIZABETH: And I'm your judge, Elizabeth.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elizabeth, how is it going? Are you enjoying the debate so far?
ELIZABETH: Oh, yeah, this is riveting. I love the different presentation forms. It's like-- are you guys all theater-- you guys give me theater kids vibes.
TOBIN MITNICK: Oh. Are we all theater kids?
BECKY ABRAMS: Yes. Theater kids, unite.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we jump back in, I want to showcase an awesome debate suggestion from one of our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Ben in Columbia, Maryland.
BEN: My idea for debate is tape versus glue.
ELIZABETH: Now, that's an idea that could get stuck in your head.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Ben at the end of the episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ELIZABETH: And now, it's back to today's debate-- redwoods versus prickly pears.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right, and it's time for round two, the--
SPEAKER 3: Micro round.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's micro round challenge is in a world. We asked you to pick a movie genre-- thriller, romance, mystery, and write a trailer for your side in that style. Tobin went first last time, so Becky, you're up. Let's hear your movie trailer for prickly pears.
NARRATOR: Tom Ato had it all. President of his garden, captain of the vegetable team, and dating Lily Pad, the most popular plant in school. That is until she dumped him for Douglas Fir.
LILY PAD: Douglas is so cool. He's evergreen.
NARRATOR: In order to save his reputation, Tom's taken on an impossible bet.
You've got one week to turn prickly pear into the most popular plant at Flora High.
TOM ATO: Prickly Pear? But she's got spikes and hangs out with bugs and lizards.
NARRATOR: With one week till senior prom, Tom's got his work cut out for him.
PRICKLY PEAR: I don't care about popularity. I'd rather develop new types of biofuel that help cut pollution than sit around vegging out.
TOM ATO: Hey, Prickley. You do photosynthesize at night, right?
PRICKLY PEAR: Yeah?
TOM ATO: Do you think you could teach me to do that? But on a date tonight?
Dang, dude. Prickly is looking sharp. She's cooler than I ever imagined. Did you know oil pressed from her seeds can help fight skin infections?
LILY PAD: How is she more popular than me? It's time to put a stop to this. Hey, Prickly, you know everyone thinks you're a joke, right? You're spikes make you look like a medieval torture device. It's so sad.
PRICKLY PEAR: Is that what you all think of me? I knew I shouldn't trust a bouquet of jerks like you.
TOM ATO: Wait, Prickly, you're still going to senior prom with me, right?
NARRATOR: Looks like it only took a week for Tom Ato to figure out Prickly is all that.
MOLLY BLOOM: I would definitely watch that movie. Major high school rom-com vibes.
TOBIN MITNICK: That was so good, Becky.
BECKY ABRAMS: Thank you.
TOBIN MITNICK: Tobin, it's your turn. Convince us to watch redwoods' next hot flick.
NARRATOR: At the top of the tallest tree in the world,
JOJO: I'm so happy we're climbing Hyperion, Jimmy.
JIMMY: Me, too, JoJo, all 380 feet of it. Yeah, this is cool.
NARRATOR: Someone is taking evil to new heights.
MR. SQUIRREL: You know what, I'm sick and tired of being the friendliest squirrel in the Redwood Forest. Let's play a little game called chew through the ropes of the unsuspecting tourists.
JOJO: Hey, whoa, not Mr. Henry Squirrel.
JIMMY: Come on help us. Help. We're in the tree. Help. Someone.
JOJO: Someone help us.
JIMMY: Help us.
NARRATOR: There's only one man who can save them.
SPEAKER 5: Bruce Climber, we need your help. It says here your ex National Forest Special Forces.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Hyperion, eh? That's one tall drink of water-absorbing stomata. But I'm too old for a mission like this.
SPEAKER 5: Mr. Climber, it's your daughter up there.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Consider that squirrel roadkill. Papa is coming, JoJo.
NARRATOR: But it won't be easy. This evil squirrel is leafing nothing to chance.
MR. SQUIRREL: You use helicopter? I drop them.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Hang tight, JoJo.
JIMMY: Dad, come save us.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Jimmy, for the last time, just because you're dating my daughter, doesn't make me your dad.
MR. SQUIRREL: Let's see how you like a rain of redwood cones, Climber.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Don't worry, I got you.
MR. SQUIRREL: It looks like you're barking up the wrong tree, Climber.
BRUCE CLIMBER: Fact is, you glorified squeak toy, I don't bark. I bite.
NARRATOR: This Arbor day, adventure takes root in the new movie, Hyperion.
MOLLY BLOOM: I am on the edge of my seat. Unhinged squirrel villain, oh, very, very good.
TOBIN MITNICK: I hope you guys know, I'm carrying through with the screenwriting of this exact film now. I'll have to whittle it down from its current 493 pages.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elizabeth, what stood out to you about Becky and Tobin's trailers?
ELIZABETH: I thought Becky's was sweet. And if I could give points for puns, I would give a lot to Becky. I just like-- the names themselves were just amazing.
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh, my God, I'm blushing.
ELIZABETH: Yeah, I want there to be a scene at the end, where like Prickly Pear realizes her true worth, and, I don't know, stab someone with one of her cactus needles. And also, Hyperion is a really cool name.
No, I like the variety of characters. And also, the squirrel fellow seems like a very, very interesting villain. And I'm hoping he gets a redemption arc. Because the only thing better than a villain is an anti-hero.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, in the Hyperion trilogy that Tobin is now writing, I'm sure there'll be plenty of time.
TOBIN MITNICK: It's a quadrilogy, quadrilogy, tetralogy. All right, Elizabeth, it's time to award a point. Again, the criteria is up to you. Did someone make a trailer of a movie you really want to see? Did they drop some facts in there? Did they make you laugh? Have you made your decision?
ELIZABETH: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then, it's time for our third around, the super stealthy--
SPEAKER 3: Sneak attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your sneak attack is sentence by sentence. This challenge requires a little teamwork. Tobin and Becky, we want you to build a story together, and it has to involve both of your sides. You'll each get three sentences to build this story from the ground up, and you'll go back and forth, taking turns, sentence by sentence, until the story is done, except we only have six sentences to finish that story. Does that make sense?
TOBIN MITNICK: Sure.
BECKY ABRAMS: Yes, indeed.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Becky went first last time, so, Tobin, you get to start. Treat us to the first sentence of this fabulous tale.
TOBIN MITNICK: The other day, I was walking through the woods, and the funniest thing happened. I saw a redwood in front of me.
BECKY ABRAMS: But the redwood had a face, and the face was looking at me and going like, look at this guy. Period.
TOBIN MITNICK: As you can probably tell, I was weirded out. So I looked at the redwood, and I said, look, I know I look weird to you, but you look weird to me because you're a face on a tree.
BECKY ABRAMS: It was at that moment that we reached an impasse. We weren't going to change our minds on each other. So what we did was, we spent the afternoon just talking and getting to know each other. And it turns out, the redwood with a face on it is pretty cool.
TOBIN MITNICK: We were having such a good time that the weird redwood face decided to take a prickly pear that he had previously made a delicious refreshing tropical drink out of and split it with me. He said, I don't need all of it. I imbibed.
BECKY ABRAMS: And boy, oh, boy, was it the most delicious flavor I have ever encountered in my entire life. The redwood with a weird face on it agreed that this was truly the king of all plants, the prickly pear.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, wow. Wow, that was amazing. A tale of friendship and teamwork, very, very beautiful. Just as beautiful as Becky and Tobin's real-life friendship. Elizabeth, it's time to award your fourth point. Have you made your decision?
ELIZABETH: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then, it's time for our final round.
SPEAKER 3: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Becky, you've got just six more words to persuade Elizabeth that your cacti are captivating.
BECKY ABRAMS: Survival of the fittest and spikiest.
MOLLY BLOOM: Tobin, it's your last chance to branch out and convince Elizabeth that the redwood is king.
TOBIN MITNICK: Redwood, I would, so would you.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, two excellent final sixes. OK, Elizabeth, it's time to award the point for this final round. Elizabeth, have you awarded a point for the final six?
ELIZABETH: Yes, I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: And then, have you tallied up the points, and are you ready to dub one team the Smash Boom Best?
ELIZABETH: Oh, this is so close.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, I'm going to do a drum roll.
BECKY ABRAMS: Please, please, please.
TOBIN MITNICK: I never wanted something so bad.
MOLLY BLOOM: And the winner is--
ELIZABETH: Redwoods.
TOBIN MITNICK: All I want to just feel this way. Yeah. All right, redwoods. Bring it on, baby.
BECKY ABRAMS: All right. All right. That's fair.
TOBIN MITNICK: I just spiked that ball in the end zone.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elizabeth, was there a moment that decided things. You're like, what really put redwoods over the top?
ELIZABETH: The six words. That was-- like out of all the puns, that was one of the best.
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh.
TOBIN MITNICK: Oh, my gosh.
BECKY ABRAMS: Well done.
TOBIN MITNICK: Becky, I loved how you took what on the surface is in an incredibly difficult underdog position. But what you chose to do was make a comic meal out of it.
BECKY ABRAMS: Tobin, wow. My friend, my brother, my rock, that movie trailer that you did was, by far, the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. It was Taken meets some sort of forest movie. I love the line, papa's coming, JoJo. I wrote down lines from your trailer. So I was super impressed by just how fun that was, and I'm astounded at how much I want that to become a real movie. So please do write it.
TOBIN MITNICK: OK, I'm on page 700 right now. I've been writing during our entire debate.
BECKY ABRAMS: Excellent.
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Elizabeth crowned redwoods the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ELIZABETH: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.
BECKY ABRAMS: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie DuPont, and Ruby Guthrie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Jess Berg, Gary O'Keefe, and Charlton Thorpe.
TOBIN MITNICK: Our editors are Shayla Farzon and Sanden Totten.
BECKY ABRAMS: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, and Nico Gonzalez Wessler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Pravadi, Alex Shaffer, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Brant Miller, Eric Wrangham, Andy Doucette, Ryan Perez, Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, Jeff Cook, and Alex Simpson. Tobin, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
TOBIN MITNICK: Yeah, I want to give a shout out to people. The first one I want to give a shout out to is Hannah, who helped me craft an amazing declaration of greatness. Thank you so much, Anna. And also, my daughter Lucy who's going to see the redwoods for the first time next week. So that's going to be freaking awesome.
MOLLY BLOOM: Amazing. How about you, Becky, any thanks or shout outs?
BECKY ABRAMS: Well, you know, mine just got taken. I was going to shout out Lucy as well, Tobin's beautiful daughter. But now, I'll take the opportunity to shout out all of the little kids that I babysit and am related to. I love you guys so much.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Elizabeth, how about you? Any special thanks?
ELIZABETH: Well, first of all, you guys are inviting me on the podcast. Thank you so much. And second, I would like to thank my family, blood and found family, because they're awesome. And they give good hugs, and I love hugging people. Apparently, eight hugs a day is the required amount to keep you happy. And so, this is a reminder to go hug somebody.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, I love that. That's the best way to end this episode. But before we go, we have one more thing to do. Let's check in with Ben and see who he thinks would win his tape versus glue debate.
BEN: I think tape would win because it doesn't need to dry, and glue needs to dry.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown, drag-out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
TOBIN MITNICK: Peace out, everyone.
BECKY ABRAMS: So long, everybody.
SINGER: (SINGING) Oh, put it through the test. Oh, you have a smash boom best. It's a smash boom best. It's a smash boom best.
ELIZABETH: I think my favorite part was that the redwood was a character, and the prickly pear just gets eaten.
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