Godfrey Hibbert
Strap in, because today’s debate is a wild ride full of ups and downs. It’s roller coasters vs. mini-golf! Producer Anna Weggel gets loopy with comedian and writer Sunny Atwal in this debate of amusement activities. Which past-time will prevail? Rocking roller coasters or masterful mini-golf?
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Audio Transcript
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ANNOUNCER: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
ISAAC: The show for people with big opinions.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is all about thrilling rides and pleasant putting. It's roller coasters versus mini golf.
In one corner, we've got super producer and Smash Boom Best veteran Anna Weggel defending rooting, tooting, roller coasters.
ANNA WEGGEL: Roller coasters, for people who love to do dangerous things without any real danger. Whoo-hoo!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Engineering!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] And in the other, we've got comedian, writer, and poet Sunny Atwal ready to take a swing for mini golf.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yo, the secret to low blood pressure is playing mini golf.
[LAUGHTER]
Turn the whole world into mini golf. It's big enough.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Isaac from the Bronx. Isaac is a huge fan of puzzles, checkers, and Dungeons and Dragons. They've always wanted a frog for a pet and strongly believe that Luigi is the better Mario brother. Welcome, Isaac.
ISAAC: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Isaac, have you ever been on a roller coaster?
ISAAC: Yes! Do I ever want to go on one again? No.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: Have I-- do I regret it? Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, no.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, no. We got an uphill battle for--
ANNA WEGGEL: Ugh.
MOLLY BLOOM: --Anna today. Tell me why. What was wrong with this roller coaster?
ISAAC: It's just, like, I can't handle things that move fast and just move in a constant motion that will make me feel sick.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: (WHISPERING) Whoa.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, now Anna knows what she's up against. So this is good information for her. And what about mini golf? Have you ever mini golfed?
ISAAC: I have. And I'm so good at mini golf that I always get third place. See? So good.
[LAUGHTER]
The best at mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait, wait, wait.
ISAAC: Third place. Know this.
MOLLY BLOOM: So how many people are golfing with you at the time?
ISAAC: Four people--
[LAUGHTER]
--every time. So good.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you come in second to last, which is very respectable. I like it. So do you like mini golf?
ISAAC: Oh, absolutely.
MOLLY BLOOM: It sounds like you're not a big fan of roller coasters. You do enjoy the mini golf. But I need to know. Can you put aside your previous experience today and go in with an open mind?
ISAAC: Oh, absolutely.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. I know you'll be a fair judge today. Will Isaac be ravished with roller coasters or mesmerized by mini golf? There's no telling. Isaac, are you ready to judge this thing?
ISAAC: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then let's review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Round one is the Declaration of Greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side. And each will have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. Then we've got the micro round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance.
Round three is the sneak attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Our judge, Isaac, will award two points in the first round, one for their favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration they liked best. They'll award one point in each round after that, but they'll keep their decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won.
OK. Sunny, Anna, Isaac, are you ready?
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah!
ISAAC: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Molly, Isaac hates roller coasters.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: I've lost four times.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: This is my fifth time competing. And I'm ready to win. Fifth time's a charm--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: --with a judge that hates my side.
[LAUGHTER]
SUNNY ATWAL: What a stroke of luck.
ISAAC: Stop it.
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: Stop it. No.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, we flipped a coin. And Anna, you're up first. Tell us why roller coasters rule.
ANNOUNCER: 3, 2, 1.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, here we go.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
We're climbing up and up. We've reached the top. We're slowing down. It's-- it's oddly calm.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Here comes the best part.
[WHOOSH]
[SCREAMING]
Whoo!
[LAUGHING] Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Here we go! We're plummeting towards the ground at a hundred miles per hour. The loop-the-loop.
Whoo! We just went upside down and survived! Here comes the brick wall. What's going to happen?
We stopped! There's nowhere to go except backwards! [LAUGHING] I haven't laughed like this in months. I feel so free!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY]
OK. So that was me on a roller coaster. Wow. Roller coasters are amazing because it's a safe way to experience fear and all of the blood-pumping, breathtaking, spine-tingling sensations that go with it.
Humans love feeling that rush without ever actually being in danger. That's why so many people love watching horror movies, ziplining, and leaving the house with no umbrella when the forecast says 90% chance of rain. And that's why people love roller coasters!
People love them so much that they've been riding whatever they can find for centuries. In the 16th and 17th centuries, Russians were slinging ice down giant slides to move it from one place to another when they realized, why does ice get to have all the fun? What if we took a ride?
[UPBEAT ORCHESTRA MUSIC]
MAN: (SPEAKING WITH RUSSIAN ACCENT) Whoo!
WOMAN: Oh, love this ride. Whoo!
MAN: Oh, I love this!
ANNA WEGGEL: But it wasn't until Thompson's Switchback Railway opened in 1884 at Coney Island in New York that roller coasters became a big time biz.
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Step right up to Thompson Switchback Railway. Give your stomach a tickle for just a nickel. Hold on to your top hats and lace trimmings, folks. This coaster is a thrill at 6 whole miles an hour.
6 miles per hour? Think how far they've come. Want to ride the fastest coaster in the world?
[WHOOSHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Head to Abu Dhabi, and hop on the Formula Rossa. It can accelerate up to 149.1 miles per hour and travel 170 feet upward--
[ENGINE REVVING]
--in 4.9 seconds. Excited for something new? Well, this year, Six Flags in Texas is opening a hybrid water ride roller coaster that ends in a humongous splash!
[BIG SPLASH]
So we know roller coasters are thrilling. We know they're engineering marvels. But can they fix our bodies?
WOMEN: (SINGING) And now it's time for Pee Pee News.
[WATER DRIPPING]
ANNA WEGGEL: A few years ago, there was this guy. And he had kidney stones, which are hard deposits made of minerals and salts that form inside your kidney. To get rid of them, you have to pee them out, which can take a really long time because they can get stuck along the way and make you very uncomfortable. Well, this guy went on a trip to Disney World, and he rode Big Thunder Mountain, which tossed him around enough that after the ride, he was able to pass the stones without the long, painful peeing process.
A professor at Michigan State University heard about this and wanted to test it. So he built a silicone model of this patient's kidney and pee parts, including real kidney stones, and took it with him on numerous rides. He was able to prove that Big Thunder Mountain was effective at dislodging the stones. (ENTHUSIASTICALLY) Amazing, right? Prescription roller coasters, anyone?
WOMEN: (SINGING) You just heard some Pee Pee News.
[WATER DRIPPING]
So now that we've learned all about why roller coasters are one of the best experiences you could ever have, take my hand and get ready to experience happiness like never before.
[ROLLER COASTER RATTLING]
ISAAC: Let's ride!
[SCREAMING]
[ROLLER COASTER RATTLING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, an exhilarating ride through the history and physical benefits of roller coasters. So excellent. Isaac, what stood out to you about Anna's declaration of greatness?
ISAAC: Well, it's very interesting that it cured kidney stones. But a big question is, would someone really go on a roller coaster if they don't like it just to get rid of kidney stones in a short amount of time?
ANNA WEGGEL: I mean, would you rather pee them out, Isaac?
[LAUGHTER]
Or ride them out laughing and smiling, and feeling the breeze in your hair? Don't answer that.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. It is very, very painful to have a kidney stone. So it might be slightly more fun to be on a roller coaster. But only time will tell. Well, I'll see if we can experience this one day.
ISAAC: Let's not hope we get one.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. We don't want to hope--
ISAAC: Just so we can test this out.
MOLLY BLOOM: True.
ANNA WEGGEL: True.
MOLLY BLOOM: Good point. Good point. All right. So Sunny, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to bring Anna's argument to a halt. All teed up. And your time starts now.
[CLOCK TICKING]
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah. Look, roller coasters probably hit birds on their way. At least, they scare them away. And mini golf is all about birdie.
[LAUGHTER]
See what I'm saying? What?
Yo, this Abu Dhabi roller coaster, over 125 miles, 70 feet up in the air, 4 seconds to-- and tolerate all of that? And then now, Six Flags are ending it with a splash? How violent are we making roller coasters for people to have to endure? I mean-- and some--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
SUNNY ATWAL: Ugh.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ugh. Got a lot more to say.
SUNNY ATWAL: 30 seconds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Good luck. And 30 seconds--
SUNNY ATWAL: They do.
MOLLY BLOOM: --goes fast. Well, you've got more time right now because it's time for your declaration of greatness. Tell us why mini golf is the Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUNNY ATWAL: Mini golf, a.k.a. shorties, mini putt, goofy golf. It's the game of games! It's got all the swagger and trappings of a full-sized sport.
[WHOOSH]
[CHEERING]
But it's little and cute, like a baby.
[BABY GIGGLING]
And it sparkles with the magic of make believe.
[SPARKLY SOUND]
I have a huge love for mini golf, and I want to win this thing. So I called artist and mini golf aficionado Robin Schwartzman for backup.
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: I'm obsessed with miniature golf.
SUNNY ATWAL: Robin has played over 400 miniature golf courses around the world. And she's designed and/or built 30 miniature golf holes! She's made a giant slice of cake--
[BABY TALK]
--a big beehive--
[BUZZING]
--a mammoth gumball machine--
[CLANKING]
--an an enormous watering can!
[WATER FLOWING]
These are all things I wish I got for my birthday.
[PARTY HORN BLOWING]
So I asked Robin what she finds so magical about mini golf.
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: You can kind of live vicariously through your ball as it goes on its journey. So you can watch your ball in your mind and travel along with it through all these cool spaces.
SUNNY ATWAL: Exactly! Mini golf is ripe with imagination!
[WHOOSHING]
[THUDDING]
BOY: Yeah!
SUNNY ATWAL: Boom! Here we are at the Par-king mini golf courses in Lincolnshire, Illinois. This course has got something for everyone, giant guitars--
[ELECTRIC GUITAR PLAYING]
--midsize elephants--
[TRUMPETING]
--a tiny Mount Rushmore--
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
And most importantly, it's home to a miniature roller coaster. We're going to travel with this little ball on the roller coaster ride of its life. Just, uh, going to do a few test swings and wind up in Palermo!
The ball is sailing through the air, towards the elevator. And makes it in! Up it goes to the top of the coaster, and it's off! Loop-the-loop. And it dropped onto the lower green, rose toward the hole. It's a hole-in-one, folks--
[CHEERING]
Hole-in-one!
[CHEERING]
Now, why would you wait in line forever to get on a two-minute, barf-inducing ride--
[BARFING]
--when you could get the roller coaster experience while enjoying a delightful game of miniature golf?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mini golf found its magic in 1926 when a fellow named Garnet Carter founded Tom Thumb Golf in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Until then, mini golf was just another way for golfers to practice their short game.
[WHOOSH]
But this course was different.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
It was sprinkled with fairy tale-themed obstacles like hollowed-out logs and garden gnomes. It was such a hit, Garnett opened themed courses across the country. It was inexpensive, fun. And unlike roller coasters, everybody could enjoy it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: Mini golf is for everyone. Truly, anyone of any age or denomination can pick up a putter and play the game of miniature golf.
SUNNY ATWAL: Even your grandma.
OLD LADY: Lets see you putt, honey butt.
SUNNY ATWAL: And while you play, you can hone valuable skills like good sportsmanship, eye-hand coordination, teamwork, self-control, patience. Mini golf also uses your brain!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Players can use math to determine the best angle for a hole-in-one. Like, if I want to get my ball to go up that sleeping dragon's back, I need to hit it so it bounces off the wall at a 45-degree angle, with enough velocity to counteract the incline. And well, you get the point. It's math, but fun math. And everybody loves fun math, even your grandma.
OLD LADY: 45-degree angles are only half right all of the time.
SUNNY ATWAL: Mini golf. It's retro and cozy, mathy and magical. Imaginative fun for everyone. Is this declaration making you want to play yet? Great. Before you go, a bit of pro mini golf advice from Robin.
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: Always pick your favorite color of ball because that's guaranteed to help you win the game.
SUNNY ATWAL: Putt for the stars, my friends. And may the course be with you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. My coordinated pink ball and putter loved hearing all of those great mini golf facts. Isaac, what stood out to you about Sunny's argument?
ISAAC: That last part was a lie.
MOLLY BLOOM: [GASPS]
ISAAC: Just because I like pink and I choose the pink ball does not mean I win.
SUNNY ATWAL: Oof.
ISAAC: Like I said--
MOLLY BLOOM: True.
ISAAC: --I get third place. It doesn't work. It is not logical. It is just a coincidence.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
SUNNY ATWAL: No.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Is there anything about Sunny's argument that was positive, that stood out to you in a positive way?
ISAAC: That it has something for everyone because that is absolutely true.
MOLLY BLOOM: Something for everyone, even your grandma. All right. Anna, it's time for your rebuttal. Spin Sunny's argument upside down. You have 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: Really--
[CLOCK TICKING]
--really cool point that grandmas love mini golf. Isaac, do you love losing? You said you always get third place. That's so sad! Guess what you'll win with every single time, a roller coaster! There's no losers!
You want to play mini golf? Get ready for a 70% chance of seeing a sketchy-looking, clown-themed hole. Roller coasters are fun, and there's new ones all the time.
What's the hot new thing at mini golf? The new hole? A new hue of ball? Does the windmill light up now? Cool.
Plus, mini golf is synonymous with bad first dates. If you need a boring activity to do with somebody you barely know, play mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh.
ISAAC: Can I say something to her point?
MOLLY BLOOM: Please.
ISAAC: You said that I always win when using roller coasters. But I don't fully win. I lose my money. I lose-- [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Yep, what else?
ISAAC: I--
ANNA WEGGEL: I'm pretty sure your parents pay.
ISAAC: And well, I also gain the pain to not want to ever do a roller coaster again. So yes, I do gain something.
MOLLY BLOOM: I find it interesting that Isaac has basically rebutted both of your arguments. So truly, I do not know which way this is going.
ANNA WEGGEL: He just wants to stay home and take a nap.
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Isaac, give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the most compelling rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one side win you over with their top-notch logic, impress you with fun facts? Who made you laugh the most?
Again, it's up to you. Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ISAAC: Yep.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Sunny and Anna, how are you two feeling right now?
[GROANING]
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: This is a tough one.
ISAAC: I just destroyed both of you. How do you feel?
SUNNY ATWAL: I feel destroyed, yeah. I feel pretty destroyed.
ISAAC: OK, good. That was my intention.
ANNA WEGGEL: I feel destroyed.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's like, today's debate has the third debater, it seems.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah. [LAUGHS]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. It's time for a quick break. Take a second to catch your breath, or fish your ball out of the Blue Lagoon.
ISAAC: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
TODD DOUGLAS: What's up, debaters? Todd Douglas here with State of Debate's forever friend, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's right. And we got a big old logical fallacy, which is a debate mistake that makes your argument super easy to defeat.
TODD DOUGLAS: It was an ad hominem fallacy. That's when you attack your opponent personally instead of staying on topic.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Let's take a peek at this conversation between Joey and Dustin on the pool deck.
[CLICK OF TAPE CHANGING]
COACH: Swimmers, take five.
[WATER SPLASHING]
JOEY: Oh man, my arms are so tired after that set. Oh.
DUSTIN: Me too. That one rocked me.
JOEY: Well, sure. It was probably kind of hard for you. But--
DUSTIN: But what?
JOEY: Us butterflyers have it way harder than any other swimmers.
DUSTIN: No way.
JOEY: Yeah-ha. Butterfly is way harder. It takes more muscles than the backstroke.
DUSTIN: It absolutely does not.
JOEY: You're just lying there on your back. It's so easy.
DUSTIN: It's just as hard for me to swim 500 yards as it is for you.
JOEY: No way. You just can't think clearly. Your brain must be waterlogged from all that time laying down in the water doing the slack stroke. I mean, backstroke.
[BUZZER]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: OK. Wow. That's not an argument. That's an insult.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right? The only thing waterlogged here is that logic. Making fun of your opponent is a surefire sign you've run out of good things to say.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And it's just plain rude. Joey needs a timeout.
TODD DOUGLAS: All right. Let's go cool off before we drown in more debate debauchery.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Catch next time on--
BOTH: --State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
WOMAN: Best.
MAN: Boom
WOMAN: Smash.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Smash.
MAN: Boom. Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're are listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ISAAC: And I'm your judge, Isaac.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we jump back in, I just want to say, we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Wesley in Buffalo, New York.
WESLEY: Hi, Smash Boom Best. My idea is heart versus brain.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Wesley at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ISAAC: And now, it's back to today's debate, roller coasters versus mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
[GAME SHOW SOUND]
ANNOUNCER: Mic-- Micro Round.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's micro-round challenge is called alien encounter. For this challenge, we ask you to pretend that you're an alien encountering your side for the first time. Describe this strange, new phenomena to your fellow aliens. And I went first last time, so Sunny, you're up. Let's hear how extraterrestrials take to mini golf.
[RADIO STATIC]
ALIEN: (ROBOTIC VOICE) Hi. Hello. I am reporting from Wildwood, New Jersey, US of American. And I am standing on green fur next to a water dribble. Humans are all around.
Little human. Big one. Old one. They carry sticks and hit mini, tiny, colorful balls.
[WHOOSH]
They also punch the air, and sometimes scream, no!
WOMAN: Ugh!
ALIEN: But they're all obsessed with these holes. I have not yet reached into these holes of darkness. Perhaps these holes are portals to the other world. I will examine.
[WHOOSH]
Whoa! OK. Almost hit by a ball. Hm--
WOMAN: Come on.
ALIEN: I will infiltrate ball, which will go into hole. [BABBLING] I am inside ball. It is quiet and strange.
[WHOOSH]
Ah!
[WIND BLOWING]
I am flying in ball. Ha-ha, ha, ha! Wow. This is great.
[WHOOSH]
Ouch! OK. I am rolling. I can see the hole. I will run the ball to the hole. Here I come, hole!
[CLATTERING]
I am in the hole. I repeat. I am in the hole. There is nothing. This hole is nothing I've ever seen before, a world of pure darkness.
What lies beyond?
[SHOUTING] A human is raising me up. No! I don't want to go back to responsibility.
WOMAN: Tara, how are you so good at mini golf?
ALIEN: Mini goof? This whole sport is called mini goof? Ha! Ha-ha! Wow. This mini goof, it is fun. I must return to mini goof all the mystery. Let's play again!
[RADIO STATIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Wow, a sonic delight there. Amazing. And Anna, it's your turn. We know aliens love space. But how about Space Mountain? Let's hear it.
ALIENS: [ALIEN LANGUAGE]
ALIEN 1: (HIGH-PITCHED ALIEN ACCENT) Oh my gosh, my friends, you will never believe this. OK. So humans are super into these things called rolling coasters. And what happens is they give coins and small papers to stand in a long row and wait under the hot sun. And when you finally get to this rolling coaster, the brave ones get into a little car.
And the car goes up and up and up, and it's scary. And their voices get loud. And they say, nyah! Help me! And they fear for their lives.
And then they give even more coins and papers for a photo on a drinking vessel that they look really weird in. My, friends it is so embarrassing for them. And just to see how silly it was, I tried it.
[LAUGHTER]
And OK. So I know I'm supposed to be an alien scientist and be really serious about stuff. But it was rad!
[GASP]
ALIEN 2: Oh.
ALIEN 3: And I would like to do that rad thing too.
ALIEN 1: My friends, I have never felt so alive. It felt like getting catapulted around the sun and riding a comet going at warp speed during a meteor shower, black hole explosion--
[MUTED BOOM]
--on my birthday. Rolling coasters are incredible. You have got to try one. Humans are amazing.
[CHEERING]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] All right, Isaac. What did you like best about Sunny and Anna's micro rounds there?
ISAAC: Anna I did a better alien voice.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: Just my opinion. It was very funny.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you, Isaac.
SUNNY ATWAL: I just don't know enough aliens.
ISAAC: Look, I said I wouldn't be biased.
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: So I'm going to not be biased.
MOLLY BLOOM: Gotcha.
ISAAC: How did the alien get into the ball, Sunny? What machine did he use? Explain that to me, please.
SUNNY ATWAL: A particle disappear-- dissipator.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mhm. Mhm.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah, particle dissipator. It dissipates the particles of your body. And it forces it into the ball, and then puts it back together once you're in the ball. In that way, you can shrink down sizes, get any bigger, if you want or wish.
It's a secret alien technology. I know one alien. I just don't know enough aliens to do the voice.
ISAAC: Can you hook me up with him? I want to have an alien friend. Please hook me up with him.
SUNNY ATWAL: I will talk to the alien. No guarantees. You have to make a reservation a couple of years in advance, a couple of light years in order to get a spot.
MOLLY BLOOM: There you go. It's all you need. It's all you need. Isaac, it's time to award a point. Again, the criteria is up to you.
Who made you laugh? Who has technology that impresses you? Who had better facts woven into their micro round? It's up to you. Have you made your decision?
ISAAC: Yep.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third around, the Super Stealthy--
MEN: Haha! Hooah!
MOLLY BLOOM: --Sneak Attack. Your sneak attack is called Rhyme Time. In the next 30 seconds, we want you to come up with words or phrases that rhyme with your side. Come up with as many as you can and be expressive about it.
For example, if my side was bear, I might come up with hair, fluffy chair, play that snare, hey there, over where, nowhere, I don't care, beware the deadly stare. Does that make sense?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
SUNNY ATWAL: OK, cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sunny, you're up. You've got 30 seconds to wax poetic for Team Putt-Putt. And your time starts now.
SUNNY ATWAL: A mini golf--
[CLOCK TICKING]
We need to surf. And find some lofts. And after that, we will go spole, spoles, Sprouse. Dylan and Cole Sprouse from The Suite Life of Zack and Cody.
[LAUGHTER]
Mini golf causes-- it's such a hard word, golf. Barf, salt, uh--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time!
SUNNY ATWAL: Halt. Halt, my friend.
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect timing with the word halt. Very nicely done. All right, Anna, you're up. Let's hear your rhymes for roller coasters. And your time starts now.
[CLOCK TICKING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Roller coaster. Stroller boaster. Bowler grocer.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Grower moster. Holder poster. Suite Life with Zack and Cody.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Keep going. You got 15 more seconds.
ANNA WEGGEL: Morer moster. Show shawler. Shawler grandma. Grandma wears a shawl. [STUTTERING] What? Whee! Roller coasters! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo!
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
ANNA WEGGEL: My parents paid for this.
SUNNY ATWAL: Argh.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work. Those are two very difficult words to rhyme. And you both did valiantly. Valiant efforts all around.
Isaac, again, it's time to award a point. The criteria, again, is up to you. Have you awarded your fourth point?
ISAAC: No. This is actually really hard.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, man. I know because they both did--
ISAAC: It's harder.
MOLLY BLOOM: --such an excellent job. Creative rhymes.
ISAAC: They were both so funny. They were also kind of bad in a sense. [LAUGHS] I mean--
ANNA WEGGEL: They're very difficult--
ISAAC: They weren't like--
ANNA WEGGEL: --to rhyme.
ISAAC: Yeah. [SIGHS]
MOLLY BLOOM: I think mini golf might be like orange. Nothing really rhymes with mini golf. [LAUGHING]
SUNNY ATWAL: I'm glad you understand my pain.
[LAUGHTER]
ISAAC: OK. I think I did it.
[BELL RINGING]
I better not be disappointed. But I think I made--
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh!
ISAAC: I'm not totally sure.
MOLLY BLOOM: High standards today.
ISAAC: It was very close.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
ISAAC: It was very close.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Well, it's time for our final around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Anna, you've got just six more words to tell us why roller coasters reign supreme.
ANNA WEGGEL: This is a message for Isaac. Ride coasters. Be brave. Love life.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Beautiful. Beautiful. I can see that on a sign in someone's house.
ISAAC: And put that on a T-shirt, and then I'll be interested.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Sunny, it's your turn. You've got one shot left to convince us that mini golf is the Smash Boom Best. Let's hear it.
SUNNY ATWAL: Roller coasters scare. Mini golf brings people together.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm, very good. This is going to be a hard decision, Isaac. But you have one more point to award for this last round. Have you awarded the last point?
ISAAC: Yes.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Drum roll, please.
[DRUM ROLL]
And the winner is--
[DRUM ROLL]
ISAAC: Roller coasters.
ANNA WEGGEL: [LOUD GASP]
SUNNY ATWAL: Oh.
ISAAC: By one point.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SCREAMING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow.
ANNA WEGGEL: What!
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. Wow. Wow.
ANNA WEGGEL: Whoa.
SUNNY ATWAL: Fifth time is the charm.
ISAAC: Three to two. Two to three.
MOLLY BLOOM: It was very close. It was a hard-fought debate. Isaac, was there a moment that really pushed it over the edge for roller coasters?
ISAAC: The rhyming one was so difficult to choose. I was just like, I couldn't. It was so hard. So I gave roller coasters that one just because you made a lot of things work with roller coaster, even though you did plagiarize off of Sunny.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: It's a callback. It's a compliment.
[LAUGHTER]
Sunny, you did such a good job. And you made me want to go mini golfing with you. I loved it.
And Isaac, when you said that I was good at doing an alien accent, it was the best moment of my life.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah, Anna, this debate had a lot of ups and downs like roller coasters. And my heart was racing at 124.9 miles per hour. [LAUGHS] I will say, your enthusiasm for roller coasters, as much as I hate them so much, at the beginning of your declaration of greatness, I was like, am I going to try this after--
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes!
SUNNY ATWAL: --this podcast?
ANNA WEGGEL: Whoo! That makes me feel like the true winner. And I would love-- I mean, I would just love to see you on one.
SUNNY ATWAL: You are the true winner.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Anna said--
SUNNY ATWAL: You are the true winner.
MOLLY BLOOM: No, Anna's used to lose things, so she forgot she won.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, man.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Isaac crowned roller coasters the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ISAAC: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.
SUNNY ATWAL: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont, Ruby Guthrie, and Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Gary O'Keefe and Derek Ramirez.
ANNA WEGGEL: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, and me, Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman. And the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavali, Alex Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, and Robin Schwartzman.
Sunny, is there anyone you want to give a shout out to?
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah. I want to give a shout out to my parents, first off and first most, my sister, The Peoples Improv Theater, Ali Reza Faranakian, and everybody that's ever helped me get to this point to debate mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: Whoo-hoo! And how about you, Anna? Any special thanks today?
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, yes. Thank you to Rosie and Ruby and Sanden for being the best editors ever. I wrote in my script here, even though I lost again for the fifth time, because I thought I was going to lose.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: And to my husband Brant Miller for being Thompson of Thompson's Switchback Railway.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Isaac, do you want to give any special thanks today?
ISAAC: I want to give thanks to Play On Studios producer Lena because I wouldn't have been able to do this without her reaching out.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Before we go, let's check in with Wesley and see who he thinks would win his heart versus brain debate.
WESLEY: I think the winner should be heart because it allows air to come in. And it allows your blood to go. And brain is not good at that. Only brain can do ideas.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown, drag-out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
ANNA WEGGEL: Whee!
MOLLY BLOOM: Ta-ta!
SUNNY ATWAL: Doodle-loo.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bye.
ISAAC: Bwah.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, put you through the test. Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, better than the rest. It's Smash Boom Best. It's Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: I like to pronounce things correctly! That's kind of my thing!
ISAAC: The show for people with big opinions.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is all about thrilling rides and pleasant putting. It's roller coasters versus mini golf.
In one corner, we've got super producer and Smash Boom Best veteran Anna Weggel defending rooting, tooting, roller coasters.
ANNA WEGGEL: Roller coasters, for people who love to do dangerous things without any real danger. Whoo-hoo!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Engineering!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] And in the other, we've got comedian, writer, and poet Sunny Atwal ready to take a swing for mini golf.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yo, the secret to low blood pressure is playing mini golf.
[LAUGHTER]
Turn the whole world into mini golf. It's big enough.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Isaac from the Bronx. Isaac is a huge fan of puzzles, checkers, and Dungeons and Dragons. They've always wanted a frog for a pet and strongly believe that Luigi is the better Mario brother. Welcome, Isaac.
ISAAC: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Isaac, have you ever been on a roller coaster?
ISAAC: Yes! Do I ever want to go on one again? No.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: Have I-- do I regret it? Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, no.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, no. We got an uphill battle for--
ANNA WEGGEL: Ugh.
MOLLY BLOOM: --Anna today. Tell me why. What was wrong with this roller coaster?
ISAAC: It's just, like, I can't handle things that move fast and just move in a constant motion that will make me feel sick.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: (WHISPERING) Whoa.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, now Anna knows what she's up against. So this is good information for her. And what about mini golf? Have you ever mini golfed?
ISAAC: I have. And I'm so good at mini golf that I always get third place. See? So good.
[LAUGHTER]
The best at mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wait, wait, wait.
ISAAC: Third place. Know this.
MOLLY BLOOM: So how many people are golfing with you at the time?
ISAAC: Four people--
[LAUGHTER]
--every time. So good.
MOLLY BLOOM: So you come in second to last, which is very respectable. I like it. So do you like mini golf?
ISAAC: Oh, absolutely.
MOLLY BLOOM: It sounds like you're not a big fan of roller coasters. You do enjoy the mini golf. But I need to know. Can you put aside your previous experience today and go in with an open mind?
ISAAC: Oh, absolutely.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. I know you'll be a fair judge today. Will Isaac be ravished with roller coasters or mesmerized by mini golf? There's no telling. Isaac, are you ready to judge this thing?
ISAAC: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then let's review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Round one is the Declaration of Greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side. And each will have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. Then we've got the micro round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance.
Round three is the sneak attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Our judge, Isaac, will award two points in the first round, one for their favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration they liked best. They'll award one point in each round after that, but they'll keep their decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won.
OK. Sunny, Anna, Isaac, are you ready?
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah!
ISAAC: Yes.
ANNA WEGGEL: Molly, Isaac hates roller coasters.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: I've lost four times.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: This is my fifth time competing. And I'm ready to win. Fifth time's a charm--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: --with a judge that hates my side.
[LAUGHTER]
SUNNY ATWAL: What a stroke of luck.
ISAAC: Stop it.
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: Stop it. No.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, we flipped a coin. And Anna, you're up first. Tell us why roller coasters rule.
ANNOUNCER: 3, 2, 1.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNA WEGGEL: OK, here we go.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
We're climbing up and up. We've reached the top. We're slowing down. It's-- it's oddly calm.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Here comes the best part.
[WHOOSH]
[SCREAMING]
Whoo!
[LAUGHING] Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo! Here we go! We're plummeting towards the ground at a hundred miles per hour. The loop-the-loop.
Whoo! We just went upside down and survived! Here comes the brick wall. What's going to happen?
We stopped! There's nowhere to go except backwards! [LAUGHING] I haven't laughed like this in months. I feel so free!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY]
OK. So that was me on a roller coaster. Wow. Roller coasters are amazing because it's a safe way to experience fear and all of the blood-pumping, breathtaking, spine-tingling sensations that go with it.
Humans love feeling that rush without ever actually being in danger. That's why so many people love watching horror movies, ziplining, and leaving the house with no umbrella when the forecast says 90% chance of rain. And that's why people love roller coasters!
People love them so much that they've been riding whatever they can find for centuries. In the 16th and 17th centuries, Russians were slinging ice down giant slides to move it from one place to another when they realized, why does ice get to have all the fun? What if we took a ride?
[UPBEAT ORCHESTRA MUSIC]
MAN: (SPEAKING WITH RUSSIAN ACCENT) Whoo!
WOMAN: Oh, love this ride. Whoo!
MAN: Oh, I love this!
ANNA WEGGEL: But it wasn't until Thompson's Switchback Railway opened in 1884 at Coney Island in New York that roller coasters became a big time biz.
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Step right up to Thompson Switchback Railway. Give your stomach a tickle for just a nickel. Hold on to your top hats and lace trimmings, folks. This coaster is a thrill at 6 whole miles an hour.
6 miles per hour? Think how far they've come. Want to ride the fastest coaster in the world?
[WHOOSHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Head to Abu Dhabi, and hop on the Formula Rossa. It can accelerate up to 149.1 miles per hour and travel 170 feet upward--
[ENGINE REVVING]
--in 4.9 seconds. Excited for something new? Well, this year, Six Flags in Texas is opening a hybrid water ride roller coaster that ends in a humongous splash!
[BIG SPLASH]
So we know roller coasters are thrilling. We know they're engineering marvels. But can they fix our bodies?
WOMEN: (SINGING) And now it's time for Pee Pee News.
[WATER DRIPPING]
ANNA WEGGEL: A few years ago, there was this guy. And he had kidney stones, which are hard deposits made of minerals and salts that form inside your kidney. To get rid of them, you have to pee them out, which can take a really long time because they can get stuck along the way and make you very uncomfortable. Well, this guy went on a trip to Disney World, and he rode Big Thunder Mountain, which tossed him around enough that after the ride, he was able to pass the stones without the long, painful peeing process.
A professor at Michigan State University heard about this and wanted to test it. So he built a silicone model of this patient's kidney and pee parts, including real kidney stones, and took it with him on numerous rides. He was able to prove that Big Thunder Mountain was effective at dislodging the stones. (ENTHUSIASTICALLY) Amazing, right? Prescription roller coasters, anyone?
WOMEN: (SINGING) You just heard some Pee Pee News.
[WATER DRIPPING]
So now that we've learned all about why roller coasters are one of the best experiences you could ever have, take my hand and get ready to experience happiness like never before.
[ROLLER COASTER RATTLING]
ISAAC: Let's ride!
[SCREAMING]
[ROLLER COASTER RATTLING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, an exhilarating ride through the history and physical benefits of roller coasters. So excellent. Isaac, what stood out to you about Anna's declaration of greatness?
ISAAC: Well, it's very interesting that it cured kidney stones. But a big question is, would someone really go on a roller coaster if they don't like it just to get rid of kidney stones in a short amount of time?
ANNA WEGGEL: I mean, would you rather pee them out, Isaac?
[LAUGHTER]
Or ride them out laughing and smiling, and feeling the breeze in your hair? Don't answer that.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. It is very, very painful to have a kidney stone. So it might be slightly more fun to be on a roller coaster. But only time will tell. Well, I'll see if we can experience this one day.
ISAAC: Let's not hope we get one.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. We don't want to hope--
ISAAC: Just so we can test this out.
MOLLY BLOOM: True.
ANNA WEGGEL: True.
MOLLY BLOOM: Good point. Good point. All right. So Sunny, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to bring Anna's argument to a halt. All teed up. And your time starts now.
[CLOCK TICKING]
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah. Look, roller coasters probably hit birds on their way. At least, they scare them away. And mini golf is all about birdie.
[LAUGHTER]
See what I'm saying? What?
Yo, this Abu Dhabi roller coaster, over 125 miles, 70 feet up in the air, 4 seconds to-- and tolerate all of that? And then now, Six Flags are ending it with a splash? How violent are we making roller coasters for people to have to endure? I mean-- and some--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
SUNNY ATWAL: Ugh.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ugh. Got a lot more to say.
SUNNY ATWAL: 30 seconds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Good luck. And 30 seconds--
SUNNY ATWAL: They do.
MOLLY BLOOM: --goes fast. Well, you've got more time right now because it's time for your declaration of greatness. Tell us why mini golf is the Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUNNY ATWAL: Mini golf, a.k.a. shorties, mini putt, goofy golf. It's the game of games! It's got all the swagger and trappings of a full-sized sport.
[WHOOSH]
[CHEERING]
But it's little and cute, like a baby.
[BABY GIGGLING]
And it sparkles with the magic of make believe.
[SPARKLY SOUND]
I have a huge love for mini golf, and I want to win this thing. So I called artist and mini golf aficionado Robin Schwartzman for backup.
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: I'm obsessed with miniature golf.
SUNNY ATWAL: Robin has played over 400 miniature golf courses around the world. And she's designed and/or built 30 miniature golf holes! She's made a giant slice of cake--
[BABY TALK]
--a big beehive--
[BUZZING]
--a mammoth gumball machine--
[CLANKING]
--an an enormous watering can!
[WATER FLOWING]
These are all things I wish I got for my birthday.
[PARTY HORN BLOWING]
So I asked Robin what she finds so magical about mini golf.
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: You can kind of live vicariously through your ball as it goes on its journey. So you can watch your ball in your mind and travel along with it through all these cool spaces.
SUNNY ATWAL: Exactly! Mini golf is ripe with imagination!
[WHOOSHING]
[THUDDING]
BOY: Yeah!
SUNNY ATWAL: Boom! Here we are at the Par-king mini golf courses in Lincolnshire, Illinois. This course has got something for everyone, giant guitars--
[ELECTRIC GUITAR PLAYING]
--midsize elephants--
[TRUMPETING]
--a tiny Mount Rushmore--
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
And most importantly, it's home to a miniature roller coaster. We're going to travel with this little ball on the roller coaster ride of its life. Just, uh, going to do a few test swings and wind up in Palermo!
The ball is sailing through the air, towards the elevator. And makes it in! Up it goes to the top of the coaster, and it's off! Loop-the-loop. And it dropped onto the lower green, rose toward the hole. It's a hole-in-one, folks--
[CHEERING]
Hole-in-one!
[CHEERING]
Now, why would you wait in line forever to get on a two-minute, barf-inducing ride--
[BARFING]
--when you could get the roller coaster experience while enjoying a delightful game of miniature golf?
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mini golf found its magic in 1926 when a fellow named Garnet Carter founded Tom Thumb Golf in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Until then, mini golf was just another way for golfers to practice their short game.
[WHOOSH]
But this course was different.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
It was sprinkled with fairy tale-themed obstacles like hollowed-out logs and garden gnomes. It was such a hit, Garnett opened themed courses across the country. It was inexpensive, fun. And unlike roller coasters, everybody could enjoy it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: Mini golf is for everyone. Truly, anyone of any age or denomination can pick up a putter and play the game of miniature golf.
SUNNY ATWAL: Even your grandma.
OLD LADY: Lets see you putt, honey butt.
SUNNY ATWAL: And while you play, you can hone valuable skills like good sportsmanship, eye-hand coordination, teamwork, self-control, patience. Mini golf also uses your brain!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Players can use math to determine the best angle for a hole-in-one. Like, if I want to get my ball to go up that sleeping dragon's back, I need to hit it so it bounces off the wall at a 45-degree angle, with enough velocity to counteract the incline. And well, you get the point. It's math, but fun math. And everybody loves fun math, even your grandma.
OLD LADY: 45-degree angles are only half right all of the time.
SUNNY ATWAL: Mini golf. It's retro and cozy, mathy and magical. Imaginative fun for everyone. Is this declaration making you want to play yet? Great. Before you go, a bit of pro mini golf advice from Robin.
ROBIN SCHWARTZMAN: Always pick your favorite color of ball because that's guaranteed to help you win the game.
SUNNY ATWAL: Putt for the stars, my friends. And may the course be with you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. My coordinated pink ball and putter loved hearing all of those great mini golf facts. Isaac, what stood out to you about Sunny's argument?
ISAAC: That last part was a lie.
MOLLY BLOOM: [GASPS]
ISAAC: Just because I like pink and I choose the pink ball does not mean I win.
SUNNY ATWAL: Oof.
ISAAC: Like I said--
MOLLY BLOOM: True.
ISAAC: --I get third place. It doesn't work. It is not logical. It is just a coincidence.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
SUNNY ATWAL: No.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Is there anything about Sunny's argument that was positive, that stood out to you in a positive way?
ISAAC: That it has something for everyone because that is absolutely true.
MOLLY BLOOM: Something for everyone, even your grandma. All right. Anna, it's time for your rebuttal. Spin Sunny's argument upside down. You have 30 seconds. And your time starts now.
ANNA WEGGEL: Really--
[CLOCK TICKING]
--really cool point that grandmas love mini golf. Isaac, do you love losing? You said you always get third place. That's so sad! Guess what you'll win with every single time, a roller coaster! There's no losers!
You want to play mini golf? Get ready for a 70% chance of seeing a sketchy-looking, clown-themed hole. Roller coasters are fun, and there's new ones all the time.
What's the hot new thing at mini golf? The new hole? A new hue of ball? Does the windmill light up now? Cool.
Plus, mini golf is synonymous with bad first dates. If you need a boring activity to do with somebody you barely know, play mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh.
ISAAC: Can I say something to her point?
MOLLY BLOOM: Please.
ISAAC: You said that I always win when using roller coasters. But I don't fully win. I lose my money. I lose-- [LAUGHING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Yep, what else?
ISAAC: I--
ANNA WEGGEL: I'm pretty sure your parents pay.
ISAAC: And well, I also gain the pain to not want to ever do a roller coaster again. So yes, I do gain something.
MOLLY BLOOM: I find it interesting that Isaac has basically rebutted both of your arguments. So truly, I do not know which way this is going.
ANNA WEGGEL: He just wants to stay home and take a nap.
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Isaac, give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the most compelling rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one side win you over with their top-notch logic, impress you with fun facts? Who made you laugh the most?
Again, it's up to you. Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ISAAC: Yep.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Sunny and Anna, how are you two feeling right now?
[GROANING]
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: This is a tough one.
ISAAC: I just destroyed both of you. How do you feel?
SUNNY ATWAL: I feel destroyed, yeah. I feel pretty destroyed.
ISAAC: OK, good. That was my intention.
ANNA WEGGEL: I feel destroyed.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's like, today's debate has the third debater, it seems.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah. [LAUGHS]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. It's time for a quick break. Take a second to catch your breath, or fish your ball out of the Blue Lagoon.
ISAAC: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
TODD DOUGLAS: What's up, debaters? Todd Douglas here with State of Debate's forever friend, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's right. And we got a big old logical fallacy, which is a debate mistake that makes your argument super easy to defeat.
TODD DOUGLAS: It was an ad hominem fallacy. That's when you attack your opponent personally instead of staying on topic.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Let's take a peek at this conversation between Joey and Dustin on the pool deck.
[CLICK OF TAPE CHANGING]
COACH: Swimmers, take five.
[WATER SPLASHING]
JOEY: Oh man, my arms are so tired after that set. Oh.
DUSTIN: Me too. That one rocked me.
JOEY: Well, sure. It was probably kind of hard for you. But--
DUSTIN: But what?
JOEY: Us butterflyers have it way harder than any other swimmers.
DUSTIN: No way.
JOEY: Yeah-ha. Butterfly is way harder. It takes more muscles than the backstroke.
DUSTIN: It absolutely does not.
JOEY: You're just lying there on your back. It's so easy.
DUSTIN: It's just as hard for me to swim 500 yards as it is for you.
JOEY: No way. You just can't think clearly. Your brain must be waterlogged from all that time laying down in the water doing the slack stroke. I mean, backstroke.
[BUZZER]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: OK. Wow. That's not an argument. That's an insult.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right? The only thing waterlogged here is that logic. Making fun of your opponent is a surefire sign you've run out of good things to say.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And it's just plain rude. Joey needs a timeout.
TODD DOUGLAS: All right. Let's go cool off before we drown in more debate debauchery.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Catch next time on--
BOTH: --State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
WOMAN: Best.
MAN: Boom
WOMAN: Smash.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Smash.
MAN: Boom. Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're are listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ISAAC: And I'm your judge, Isaac.
MOLLY BLOOM: Before we jump back in, I just want to say, we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Wesley in Buffalo, New York.
WESLEY: Hi, Smash Boom Best. My idea is heart versus brain.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Wesley at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ISAAC: And now, it's back to today's debate, roller coasters versus mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--
[GAME SHOW SOUND]
ANNOUNCER: Mic-- Micro Round.
[BELL DINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's micro-round challenge is called alien encounter. For this challenge, we ask you to pretend that you're an alien encountering your side for the first time. Describe this strange, new phenomena to your fellow aliens. And I went first last time, so Sunny, you're up. Let's hear how extraterrestrials take to mini golf.
[RADIO STATIC]
ALIEN: (ROBOTIC VOICE) Hi. Hello. I am reporting from Wildwood, New Jersey, US of American. And I am standing on green fur next to a water dribble. Humans are all around.
Little human. Big one. Old one. They carry sticks and hit mini, tiny, colorful balls.
[WHOOSH]
They also punch the air, and sometimes scream, no!
WOMAN: Ugh!
ALIEN: But they're all obsessed with these holes. I have not yet reached into these holes of darkness. Perhaps these holes are portals to the other world. I will examine.
[WHOOSH]
Whoa! OK. Almost hit by a ball. Hm--
WOMAN: Come on.
ALIEN: I will infiltrate ball, which will go into hole. [BABBLING] I am inside ball. It is quiet and strange.
[WHOOSH]
Ah!
[WIND BLOWING]
I am flying in ball. Ha-ha, ha, ha! Wow. This is great.
[WHOOSH]
Ouch! OK. I am rolling. I can see the hole. I will run the ball to the hole. Here I come, hole!
[CLATTERING]
I am in the hole. I repeat. I am in the hole. There is nothing. This hole is nothing I've ever seen before, a world of pure darkness.
What lies beyond?
[SHOUTING] A human is raising me up. No! I don't want to go back to responsibility.
WOMAN: Tara, how are you so good at mini golf?
ALIEN: Mini goof? This whole sport is called mini goof? Ha! Ha-ha! Wow. This mini goof, it is fun. I must return to mini goof all the mystery. Let's play again!
[RADIO STATIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Wow, a sonic delight there. Amazing. And Anna, it's your turn. We know aliens love space. But how about Space Mountain? Let's hear it.
ALIENS: [ALIEN LANGUAGE]
ALIEN 1: (HIGH-PITCHED ALIEN ACCENT) Oh my gosh, my friends, you will never believe this. OK. So humans are super into these things called rolling coasters. And what happens is they give coins and small papers to stand in a long row and wait under the hot sun. And when you finally get to this rolling coaster, the brave ones get into a little car.
And the car goes up and up and up, and it's scary. And their voices get loud. And they say, nyah! Help me! And they fear for their lives.
And then they give even more coins and papers for a photo on a drinking vessel that they look really weird in. My, friends it is so embarrassing for them. And just to see how silly it was, I tried it.
[LAUGHTER]
And OK. So I know I'm supposed to be an alien scientist and be really serious about stuff. But it was rad!
[GASP]
ALIEN 2: Oh.
ALIEN 3: And I would like to do that rad thing too.
ALIEN 1: My friends, I have never felt so alive. It felt like getting catapulted around the sun and riding a comet going at warp speed during a meteor shower, black hole explosion--
[MUTED BOOM]
--on my birthday. Rolling coasters are incredible. You have got to try one. Humans are amazing.
[CHEERING]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] All right, Isaac. What did you like best about Sunny and Anna's micro rounds there?
ISAAC: Anna I did a better alien voice.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: Just my opinion. It was very funny.
ANNA WEGGEL: Thank you, Isaac.
SUNNY ATWAL: I just don't know enough aliens.
ISAAC: Look, I said I wouldn't be biased.
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
ISAAC: So I'm going to not be biased.
MOLLY BLOOM: Gotcha.
ISAAC: How did the alien get into the ball, Sunny? What machine did he use? Explain that to me, please.
SUNNY ATWAL: A particle disappear-- dissipator.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mhm. Mhm.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah, particle dissipator. It dissipates the particles of your body. And it forces it into the ball, and then puts it back together once you're in the ball. In that way, you can shrink down sizes, get any bigger, if you want or wish.
It's a secret alien technology. I know one alien. I just don't know enough aliens to do the voice.
ISAAC: Can you hook me up with him? I want to have an alien friend. Please hook me up with him.
SUNNY ATWAL: I will talk to the alien. No guarantees. You have to make a reservation a couple of years in advance, a couple of light years in order to get a spot.
MOLLY BLOOM: There you go. It's all you need. It's all you need. Isaac, it's time to award a point. Again, the criteria is up to you.
Who made you laugh? Who has technology that impresses you? Who had better facts woven into their micro round? It's up to you. Have you made your decision?
ISAAC: Yep.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third around, the Super Stealthy--
MEN: Haha! Hooah!
MOLLY BLOOM: --Sneak Attack. Your sneak attack is called Rhyme Time. In the next 30 seconds, we want you to come up with words or phrases that rhyme with your side. Come up with as many as you can and be expressive about it.
For example, if my side was bear, I might come up with hair, fluffy chair, play that snare, hey there, over where, nowhere, I don't care, beware the deadly stare. Does that make sense?
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes.
SUNNY ATWAL: OK, cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sunny, you're up. You've got 30 seconds to wax poetic for Team Putt-Putt. And your time starts now.
SUNNY ATWAL: A mini golf--
[CLOCK TICKING]
We need to surf. And find some lofts. And after that, we will go spole, spoles, Sprouse. Dylan and Cole Sprouse from The Suite Life of Zack and Cody.
[LAUGHTER]
Mini golf causes-- it's such a hard word, golf. Barf, salt, uh--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time!
SUNNY ATWAL: Halt. Halt, my friend.
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect timing with the word halt. Very nicely done. All right, Anna, you're up. Let's hear your rhymes for roller coasters. And your time starts now.
[CLOCK TICKING]
ANNA WEGGEL: Roller coaster. Stroller boaster. Bowler grocer.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: Grower moster. Holder poster. Suite Life with Zack and Cody.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
SUNNY ATWAL: [LAUGHING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Keep going. You got 15 more seconds.
ANNA WEGGEL: Morer moster. Show shawler. Shawler grandma. Grandma wears a shawl. [STUTTERING] What? Whee! Roller coasters! Whoo! Whoo! Whoo!
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
ANNA WEGGEL: My parents paid for this.
SUNNY ATWAL: Argh.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work. Those are two very difficult words to rhyme. And you both did valiantly. Valiant efforts all around.
Isaac, again, it's time to award a point. The criteria, again, is up to you. Have you awarded your fourth point?
ISAAC: No. This is actually really hard.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, man. I know because they both did--
ISAAC: It's harder.
MOLLY BLOOM: --such an excellent job. Creative rhymes.
ISAAC: They were both so funny. They were also kind of bad in a sense. [LAUGHS] I mean--
ANNA WEGGEL: They're very difficult--
ISAAC: They weren't like--
ANNA WEGGEL: --to rhyme.
ISAAC: Yeah. [SIGHS]
MOLLY BLOOM: I think mini golf might be like orange. Nothing really rhymes with mini golf. [LAUGHING]
SUNNY ATWAL: I'm glad you understand my pain.
[LAUGHTER]
ISAAC: OK. I think I did it.
[BELL RINGING]
I better not be disappointed. But I think I made--
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh!
ISAAC: I'm not totally sure.
MOLLY BLOOM: High standards today.
ISAAC: It was very close.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
ISAAC: It was very close.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Well, it's time for our final around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Anna, you've got just six more words to tell us why roller coasters reign supreme.
ANNA WEGGEL: This is a message for Isaac. Ride coasters. Be brave. Love life.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Beautiful. Beautiful. I can see that on a sign in someone's house.
ISAAC: And put that on a T-shirt, and then I'll be interested.
ANNA WEGGEL: OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] Sunny, it's your turn. You've got one shot left to convince us that mini golf is the Smash Boom Best. Let's hear it.
SUNNY ATWAL: Roller coasters scare. Mini golf brings people together.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm, very good. This is going to be a hard decision, Isaac. But you have one more point to award for this last round. Have you awarded the last point?
ISAAC: Yes.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Drum roll, please.
[DRUM ROLL]
And the winner is--
[DRUM ROLL]
ISAAC: Roller coasters.
ANNA WEGGEL: [LOUD GASP]
SUNNY ATWAL: Oh.
ISAAC: By one point.
ANNA WEGGEL: [SCREAMING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow.
ANNA WEGGEL: What!
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. Wow. Wow.
ANNA WEGGEL: Whoa.
SUNNY ATWAL: Fifth time is the charm.
ISAAC: Three to two. Two to three.
MOLLY BLOOM: It was very close. It was a hard-fought debate. Isaac, was there a moment that really pushed it over the edge for roller coasters?
ISAAC: The rhyming one was so difficult to choose. I was just like, I couldn't. It was so hard. So I gave roller coasters that one just because you made a lot of things work with roller coaster, even though you did plagiarize off of Sunny.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: It's a callback. It's a compliment.
[LAUGHTER]
Sunny, you did such a good job. And you made me want to go mini golfing with you. I loved it.
And Isaac, when you said that I was good at doing an alien accent, it was the best moment of my life.
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah, Anna, this debate had a lot of ups and downs like roller coasters. And my heart was racing at 124.9 miles per hour. [LAUGHS] I will say, your enthusiasm for roller coasters, as much as I hate them so much, at the beginning of your declaration of greatness, I was like, am I going to try this after--
ANNA WEGGEL: Yes!
SUNNY ATWAL: --this podcast?
ANNA WEGGEL: Whoo! That makes me feel like the true winner. And I would love-- I mean, I would just love to see you on one.
SUNNY ATWAL: You are the true winner.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Anna said--
SUNNY ATWAL: You are the true winner.
MOLLY BLOOM: No, Anna's used to lose things, so she forgot she won.
[LAUGHTER]
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, man.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Isaac crowned roller coasters the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
ISAAC: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.
SUNNY ATWAL: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont, Ruby Guthrie, and Sanden Totten.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Gary O'Keefe and Derek Ramirez.
ANNA WEGGEL: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, and me, Anna Weggel.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman. And the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavali, Alex Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, and Robin Schwartzman.
Sunny, is there anyone you want to give a shout out to?
SUNNY ATWAL: Yeah. I want to give a shout out to my parents, first off and first most, my sister, The Peoples Improv Theater, Ali Reza Faranakian, and everybody that's ever helped me get to this point to debate mini golf.
MOLLY BLOOM: Whoo-hoo! And how about you, Anna? Any special thanks today?
ANNA WEGGEL: Oh, yes. Thank you to Rosie and Ruby and Sanden for being the best editors ever. I wrote in my script here, even though I lost again for the fifth time, because I thought I was going to lose.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
ANNA WEGGEL: And to my husband Brant Miller for being Thompson of Thompson's Switchback Railway.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Isaac, do you want to give any special thanks today?
ISAAC: I want to give thanks to Play On Studios producer Lena because I wouldn't have been able to do this without her reaching out.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Before we go, let's check in with Wesley and see who he thinks would win his heart versus brain debate.
WESLEY: I think the winner should be heart because it allows air to come in. And it allows your blood to go. And brain is not good at that. Only brain can do ideas.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown, drag-out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
ANNA WEGGEL: Whee!
MOLLY BLOOM: Ta-ta!
SUNNY ATWAL: Doodle-loo.
ANNA WEGGEL: Bye.
ISAAC: Bwah.
[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, put you through the test. Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, better than the rest. It's Smash Boom Best. It's Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: I like to pronounce things correctly! That's kind of my thing!
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