Lollipops vs. Popcorn

SPEAKER 1: From the brains behind Brains On, it Smash Boom Best.

SPEAKER 2: The show for people with big opinions.

MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a snack attack of the sweet and savory kind. It's lollipops versus popcorn. In one corner, we've got producer and writer at our own Arpn Woldeslassie ready to defend his buttery bounty.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Put the kettle to the metal. It's time to pop up for popcorn.

MOLLY BLOOM: And in the other, we've got comedian, Katie McVay, ready to defend those sweet lollies we love to lick.

KATIE MCVAY: We may be hard, but we're sweet as pie. And get ready to get popped in the face with some delicious facts.

MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Irene from Minneapolis. She's a talented actor and vocalist and recently released her first album of original songs. Hey, Irene.

IRENE: Hello, Molly.

MOLLY BLOOM: So Irene, before we dive in, I have to know, do you ever snack on lollipops or popcorn?

IRENE: Of course, I do. I snack on both. I love a good snack. I'm so excited.

MOLLY BLOOM: And do you have a favorite kind of lollipop?

IRENE: I don't know. I feel like there's so many different varieties. And I'm sure, I'll think of more, as we're hearing the argument, too.

MOLLY BLOOM: And what is your popcorn favorite, like a salty, a sweet, a salty and a sweet.

IRENE: I can think of a lot of those flavors. I like classic. I like caramel. I like a kettle corn. The options are endless.

MOLLY BLOOM: Have you ever had a lollipop or popcorn that you didn't like?

IRENE: Oh, for sure. There are some lollipops that are weird, beenboozled, purposefully gross flavors. And then popcorn, I like a cheese popcorn, but it has to be right. If it's over cheese town, then it is too much.

MOLLY BLOOM: Very, very fair. All right, well, Irene, crown the kernel's king or side with sugar on a stick, there's no telling. Irene, are you ready to make some difficult decisions?

IRENE: I'm ready.

MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Before we get this debate started, let's review the rules of the game. Round one is the declaration of greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side, and each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.

Then, we've got the micro round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round three is the sneak attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.

Our judge, Irene, will award two points in the first round, one for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration she liked best. She'll award one point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen.

At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Katie, Aron, and Irene, are you ready?

IRENE: I'm ready.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Ready.

KATIE MCVAY: You know it.

MOLLY BLOOM: Then, it's time for the--

SPEAKER 3: Declaration of greatness.

MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin, and Katie, you're up first. Tell us why lollipops are legendary.

KATIE MCVAY: You know what I hate? Errands. We've all been there, dragged by our parents to the doctor's office, the post office, or, worst of all, the bank.

SPEAKER 4: Mom, do I have to come with?

SPEAKER 5: I just have to deposit this check. It's no biggie.

SPEAKER 4: Who even uses checks anymore? Oh, this is miserable. It's so boring. I mean, how long have we been standing in this line anyway?

KATIE MCVAY: But then you see it, an oasis, a wicker basket filled with--

SPEAKER 4: Lollipops. Oh, and pineapple, my favorite.

KATIE MCVAY: And just like that, the world is a little brighter. That's the magic of lollipops. They bring fun and wonder to any situation. I mean, objectively speaking, anything on a stick is awesome. Don't get me started on corn dogs. But sticks aren't just fun. They're also practical.

You could take it anywhere-- the beach, the moon, your grandmother's retirement party. And when that stick is covered in candy, your grandma has no complaints when you give her a hug because your hands aren't sticky. People have known the power of candy on a stick for centuries.

Historians think it all started when cave people use sticks to get honey out of beehives.

CAVEMAN: Sticky stick. Yummy in tummy.

KATIE MCVAY: People in ancient China, Arabia, and Egypt used sticks to swirl fruits and nuts in honey for a fun, festive treat. And when sugar became more widely available, the party was on. In 17th century England, street vendors sold all sorts of stuff on sticks, be it meats or sweets.

VENDOR: Lollies, lollies. Get your lollies. Step right up to the lolly trolley. I promise a tongue-slapping good time.

KATIE MCVAY: He's right. Some linguists believe the word lollipop comes from Northern English slang. Lolly meaning tongue, and pop meaning slap. If that's not fun, I don't know what is.

VENDOR: This little lady gets it. So my golly, step right up to the lolly trolley. Stay dapper with a tongue slapper.

KATIE MCVAY: And the tongue-slapping name stuck around. In 1908, a man named George Smith started making hard candy on sticks in New Haven, Connecticut. He trademarked the name in 1931. Today, there are so many flavor possibilities, sweet, and savory, and everything in between-- strawberry cheesecake, mango with spicy chili, honey and lavender.

What's this in my hand? Oh, it's a buttered popcorn flavor lollipop. Weird. I've never seen a lollipop flavored popcorn. Oh, well. They can be different shapes, sizes, colors, and textures, too. Lollipops can even hold fun secrets. Ever heard of the Tootsie Pop?

Lollipop on the outside and chocolate on the inside. That's two candies for the price of one. Other lollies have caramel inside, or bubble gum, or even a scorpion. Yeah, that's right. You can buy a lollipop with a scorpion inside. If popcorn tried that, it'd be pandemonium at the movies.

Lollipops are also useful. There are medicinal lollipops that can help people who have a sore throat or difficulty swallowing. Lollipops are also used in speech therapy to help people articulate their words. For example, if someone is having a hard time making the K sound, a lollipop can help push the tongue to the back of the mouth, turning a T into a K.

So the next time you need a reward for running errands, or visiting the doctor, or just a treat to brighten your day, don't be a sucker. Just reach for a tongue slapper.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, a slapping argument for lollipops that will definitely stick with all of us. All right, Irene, what stood out to you about Katie's argument?

IRENE: Well, I was reminded about lollipops that have a whole Tootsie Roll inside and whole other pieces of candy.

MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. It's like the most versatile snack, like the turducken of candies. All right, Aron, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to melt Katie's argument, and your time starts now.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Well, what can I say about a snack that's wrapped and impaled by garbage. There's a famous question lollipops like to ask. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a lollipop? Because that's what you need to do before eating a lollipop.

Question-- how much work it takes to get through one? I'm glad my opponent mentioned the center of lollipops. Sometimes, it's a snack like nugget or chewy gum. And sometimes, it's a scorpion. All those delicious things.

MOLLY BLOOM: And time. Katie's mouth is hanging open in disbelief right now.

KATIE MCVAY: The absolute slander that has been perpetrated against the greatest snack of all time shall not be born. And when the time comes for my rebuttal, sir, you shall be rebut right into the sun.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, this is already getting intense. Aron, we got to hear what you were going to say about popcorn. Tell us why popcorn is perfection.

SPEAKER 6: Yee-haw. It's 6:00 PM. You know what that means. It's time for the old mcpopcorn hour. So pop off of your seats and give a big welcome to the captain of the kernel, the host with the most Old McPopcorn.

OLD MCPOPCORN: Howdy, y'all. My name is old McPopcorn, welcome to my popcorn farm, where we grow the best popcorn in the world.

CORNY COBB: I don't know about that. I grow popcorn, too.

OLD MCPOPCORN: Well, if it isn't my nosy neighbor, Corny Cobb. How are things on your farm?

CORNY COBB: Not great. I've grown all this popcorn, and none of it will pop.

OLD MCPOPCORN: Well, Courtney, you're probably growing the wrong kind of corn. Kids, did there are over 12,000 species of corn, and only a very small number of them can be popped.

CORNY COBB: Wait, what? What kind of corn pops?

OLD MCPOPCORN: Zea mays everta.

CORNY COBB: What entire nation is zea mays everta?

OLD MCPOPCORN: It's a special variety of flint corn, which is real hard and comes in a few different colors.

CORNY COBB: You're telling me, corn can come in different colors? What in blazes am I going to do?

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Oh, Corny, what are you going to do? You'd think a farmer might know a thing or two about popcorn, but to be fair, there is a lot to know about the crunchy treat. It's nutritious, economical, and you can eat it at the movies, baseball games, or in recording booths.

As you can tell, I really like popcorn, too. Because, unlike so many other treats, like bags of garbage or lollipops, popcorn has some great health benefits. It's low in sugar and high in fiber, and it's even a whole grain, which makes it heart healthy, as long as you're not drowning it in butter, that is.

But that's just a good rule for life. Don't drown things in butter. Popcorn even has key nutrients that you need, like B vitamins and vitamin E. Also, because it's high in fiber, you'll never complain about popcorn when you're in the bathroom. If you catch my drift. That's a combination that makes it perfect for anyone from bodybuilders to street vendors.

BODYBUILDER: Oh, yeah. Because it's a whole grain and low in carbs, popcorn makes for a great healthy snack that doesn't slow you down.

VENDOR: That's right, sir. A popcorn snack is also very popular. Everyone from a high gentlemen to the youngest of Cracker Jacks knows the delicious taste of popcorn.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: And it's not just these guys who think it's awesome. Popcorn has been enjoyed around the world for centuries. Archeologists have found popcorn remains in Peru from as early as 4,700 BCE. Back then, they didn't even have movies to watch with their popcorn. All they had was fire and The Brady Bunch.

BRADY BUNCH: We're the Brady Bunch.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: And popcorn is a worldwide sensation. You can enjoy sitar popcorn in India, which is popcorn peppered with thyme, sesame, and sumac. Both Germans and Frenchmen like their popcorn covered in sugar. In Nigeria, popcorn can be flavored with fruit chutney.

It's delicious and makes for a completely unique snacking experience. And as for Americans, we eat about 17 billion quarts of popcorn a year, which is almost 6800 Olympic-sized swimming pools full of popcorn. Most of the time, popcorn is eaten at home, but you can always find it at the movies or stadiums, pretty much any place where something spectacular is happening.

And that's because popcorn itself is spectacular, a blank canvass for flavor, a healthy snack that does wonders for your regularity, and a certified global phenomenon. Listen, if all that isn't enough to convince you to pick up a bag of fluffy, delicious popcorn, then what in tarnation is wrong with you?

MOLLY BLOOM: A pop-pop-powerful declaration of greatness there from Aron. Irene, what stood out to you about Aron's argument for popcorn.

IRENE: Well, mostly, what stood out to me, even though it was supposed to be a negative, I do like drowning things in butter, and so that got me excited about popcorn.

MOLLY BLOOM: Katie, it's time for your rebuttal. Give his argument a good licking. You have 30 seconds, and your time starts now.

KATIE MCVAY: Irene makes a good point. Butter is the secret to popcorn. In fact, anything is the secret to popcorn besides popcorn itself because popcorn is a day ruiner. You know what they call it in the dentist industry? Dentist delight. Because it gets stuck in your teeth.

And the minute you eat some popcorn, you have to go home and floss because you're going to be-- you're going to be-- you got dry mouth. You got popcorn in your teeth. You've ruined your day. If I want a nutritional snack that's not going to ruin my day, how about an apple? How about a strawberry?

MOLLY BLOOM: And time.

KATIE MCVAY: The bounty of fruits.

MOLLY BLOOM: It is time to award some points. We want you to give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the most compelling rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one side do a butter job, or did the other have the sweeter argument? Both points can go to the same person or each person could get a point. It's up to you. Have you made your decision?

IRENE: I have.

MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Katie and Aron, how are you two feeling so far?

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: I'm feeling pretty good.

KATIE MCVAY: Honestly, stressed, but that is just because I have become so passionate that my heart-- my blood pressure has gotten high as the arguments have gotten low. It's a passionate day.

MOLLY BLOOM: Passionate day for lollipops. Popcorn is popping up all over the place. All right, it's time for a quick break. Lick a lolly or munch some popcorn.

IRENE: And we'll be right back with more smash boom best.

SPEAKER 1: You're watching state of debate, home to rage in rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.

TODD DOUGLAS: Hey, friends. It's another day of great debate. I'm Todd Douglass.

TAYLOR: And I'm Taylor. And we're watching an argument crash and burn.

TODD DOUGLAS: That's right. Lewis was arguing with Lucy about pets. Lewis says piranhas make perfect pet pals, but he used a logical fallacy that tanked his point.

TAYLOR: Fallacies are poor or misleading arguments that can weaken your case, and Lewis used one called the fallacy of ambiguity.

TODD DOUGLAS: That's when you use vague or wishy-washy words that can have multiple meanings. It can be used to mislead the listener.

TAYLOR: Check it out.

LEWIS: Forget dogs. Piranhas are the best pet ever. You don't have to walk them, and they don't shed. And they're so cute.

LUCY: Yeah, but you can't pet them. They bite.

LEWIS: Oh, pish-posh. When they bite something, it's rare.

LUCY: That's not true. They bite all the time. It's what they're famous for.

LEWIS: Watch. I'll just hold my hand over the tank. They won't bite.

LUCY: Those piranha are literally trying to jump out and bite you.

LEWIS: Ow.

LUCY: See, it bit you. You lied.

LEWIS: No. I said, when they bite, it's rare.

LUCY: Wait, did you mean rare, like a rare steak? Like when something is uncooked?

LEWIS: Maybe. Yes. I mean, it bit my finger, which is uncooked. So when they bit me, it was rare.

LUCY: You're the worst. Let me get you a Band-Aid.

TAYLOR: Wow. When Lucy called out that ambiguous word, she really took a bite out of Lewis's argument.

TODD DOUGLAS: Yeah. Fallacies always leave your side toothless.

TAYLOR: That's it for state of debate.

GROUP: Boom. Boom, boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Smash boom best.

MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

IRENE: And I'm your judge, Irene.

MOLLY BLOOM: We get a lot of great debate ideas from our listeners. Before we jump back in, let's listen to this epic debate suggestion from Emmett in Dover, New Hampshire.

EMITT: My debate idea is paintings versus sculptures.

MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Emmett at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.

IRENE: And now, it's back to today's debate-- lollipops versus popcorn.

MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--

SPEAKER 3: Micro round today's micro round challenge is called pop off. We asked Aron and Katie to write the verse and chorus of a pop song all about their side. Katie went first last time, so Aron, you're up. Let's hear your pop and pop song about popcorn.

SPEAKER 6: Popcorn. Popcorn for sale. Free with any ticket.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: What's this?

SPEAKER 6: Why, sir, it's movie theater popcorn. Come on in.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: (SINGING) Wow, I really like this. Wow. Oh, wow. Oh, I really like this. This taste, this crunch, pop, pop, pow. Your taste, your look, it's incredible. You're cheap, so sweet, and reliable. I'll take this treat to a movie seat. Pop, pop, pow.

Did you know popcorn saved the movie industry? It's true. Back in the day, theaters made more money from popcorn than ticket sales. And that's because popcorn is cheap and easy to store, delicious, and goes pop, pop, pow.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wow.

IRENE: I was dancing.

MOLLY BLOOM: That was incredible. Really, pop pop star energy there.

IRENE: I loved it.

MOLLY BLOOM: It was great. OK, Katie, your turn. Let's listen to your sticky single.

SPEAKER 5: Honey, it's time to go to the store. We got to run some errands.

SPEAKER 4: Oh, mom. Why?

(SINGING) Here I am at the bank again, when I just want to be with my friends. Instead, I'm stuck, waiting in line. My mom has bored me too many times. If I have to be here any longer, I am going to lose my mind.

There's only one good thing about this day, and I think what I am going to say. Sticky, sweet, errands' only treat. Lollipops are the only thing here just for me.

MOLLY BLOOM: Angsty, wonderful, delightful. So, Irene, what stood out to you about those wonderful songs?

IRENE: I love-- I loved the storytelling that was conveyed through the music.

MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, it's not easy to tell a story through a song.

IRENE: No, it's very hard. It's very hard.

MOLLY BLOOM: Both of our debaters did so, so ably. OK, Irene, I'm sorry to tell you, but you have to award a point.

IRENE: Oh, I know.

MOLLY BLOOM: Have you made your decision?

IRENE: I have.

MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, fantastic. Then, it's time for our third round, a super stealthy--

SPEAKER 3: Sneak attack.

MOLLY BLOOM: Your sneak attack is called say my name, say my name. For this challenge, you have 10 seconds to convince us that your side is the best, and then 10 seconds to prove that your opponent is the worst. But you only get to use sound effects in the name of your sides to do it.

For example, if I was team hawk, and my opponent was team mouse, I'd say, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, hawk, swish, whew, whew, hawk. And mouse, mouse, squeak. Ew, mouse, oh, squeak, ew. Does that make sense?

KATIE MCVAY: Absolutely dearly.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Definitely.

MOLLY BLOOM: Katie, you are up. Please tell us why lollipops are perfection using sound effects in the name of your side. Your time starts now.

KATIE MCVAY: Lollipops, mhm, [SPEAKING LIVELY] lollipops. Lollipops.

MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, delightful. OK, now, let's hear your anti-popcorn piece. The time for that starts now.

KATIE MCVAY: Ugh, popcorn? [RETCHING] popcorn.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, that was incredible. OK, Aron, you're up. Prove that your side is the best using only the word popcorn in sound effects. Your time starts now.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: (SPEAKING LIVELY) Popcorn. Popcorn. Popcorn. Popcorn. Popcorn. Popcorn. Pop Corn. Popcorn.

MOLLY BLOOM: Now, lick those lollies with a killer rebuttal. Your time starts now.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Lollipop? [RETCHING] Lollipop. [COUGHING] Lollipop.

MOLLY BLOOM: Time.

IRENE: Yikes. I was really concerned.

MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Irene, what did you like about what you just heard there?

IRENE: The enthusiasm coming from both of them. So excited. Very impressive.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Irene, again, time to award your fourth point. Whatever the criteria is, it's up to you. Have you made your decision?

IRENE: I have.

MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Then, it's time for our final round.

SPEAKER 3: The final six.

MOLLY BLOOM: Aron, you've got just six words left to win. Give us your seediest kernel of truth.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Turn up the heat for popcorn.

MOLLY BLOOM: Lovely. Katie, it's your turn. Convince us that your confection is the fructose with the most, using only six words.

KATIE MCVAY: Sweetest stick respite from weary world.

MOLLY BLOOM: A dramatic ending to a wonderful debate. Irene, it is time to award your final point.

IRENE: This is the hardest one.

MOLLY BLOOM: It's a good thing you're our judge. We know you can handle it. I know.

MOLLY BLOOM: Have you made your decision?

IRENE: I have.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, drum roll, please. And the winner is--

IRENE: Popcorn.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Oh, my goodness.

KATIE MCVAY: I have, once again, been cursed by an ungivng God.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: I'm blown away. This feels so good. I feel like that's a really mean thing to say to--

KATIE MCVAY: Well, no, no, no, no, no, it does feel good. Just by one point. I just felt like popcorn was easier to drown in butter than lollipops, and that's what took the cake.

KATIE MCVAY: You don't need to drown them in butter. You can just make a butter-flavored lollipop. That confection we've all been dying to eat.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Katie, can I say so many good things about your singing voice and your songwriting. You did-- you made lollipops come alive with music in a way I couldn't possibly compete with. You were incredible. And all the different tastes that you associated with lollipops, it was great, too.

If anything, it makes me want to go out and get a lollipop and put it on top of my popcorn. Because I feel like that's just-- it's two good things have to come together to make an even better thing.

KATIE MCVAY: Aron, I respect you so much that I will tell you, please don't do that. That sounds like a terrible treat. I will also say, this is the most abstract Smash Boom Best I've ever been a part of, and I love that for me.

Secondly, I want to say, the passion, Aron, with which you defended your position, made me reconsider my entire relationship with not only popcorn, but my mother, my father, and the world around me. I am a changed woman.

MOLLY BLOOM: No higher compliment. And that's it for today's debate battle. Irene crowned popcorn the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?

IRENE: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.

MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.

KATIE MCVAY: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie DuPont, Ruby Guthrie, and Sanden Totten.

MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Drew Jostad and Alexandra Simpson.

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: And we had production help from Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, and Anna Goldfield.

MOLLY BLOOM: Our right executive producer is Beth Perlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Cafferty, Alex Shaffer, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley. And we want to give a special thanks to Peter Eklund, Brent Miller, Taylor Kaufman, Austin Cross, and Coco. Katie, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to?

KATIE MCVAY: I would like to thank Aron for changing my life, and I would also like to thank my husband and the love of my life, Matthew Shimkus, for hearing me write a pop song about lollipops for, I would say, two weeks.

MOLLY BLOOM: And how about you, Aron? Any special shout outs?

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: I want to thank my good friends and neighbors who helped me tone down some of my arguments against lollipops, as well as my mother and sister, who helped me realize all the great ways you can make popcorn.

MOLLY BLOOM: Irene, do you want to give any special thanks today?

IRENE: Thanks to all of you, and thanks for listening, whoever is listening.

MOLLY BLOOM: Now, before we go, let's check in with Emmett and see who he thinks would win his painting versus sculpture debate.

EMMETT: I think sculptures will win because they are three-dimensional art.

MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown, drag-out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.

ALL: Bye.

SINGER: (SINGING) Oh, you have a smash boom best. Oh, put it through the test. Oh, you have a smash boom best. It's smash boom best. It's smash boom best.

KATIE MCVAY: We'll all drown each other in butter after this. No, we won't. This is-- children, don't do large vats of butter.